Quakewars Developer Blog wrote:A Word About In-Game Ads
Submitted by Relaxer on Tue, 2007-06-19 09:10.
Hi, I'm Neil Postlethwaite, Splash Damage's Managing Director and one of the Producers on Enemy Territory: QUAKE Wars. I'd like to talk to you today about the in-game advertising we have in ETQW.
For the last four years, we've put all of our effort into making Enemy Territory: QUAKE Wars. So, we're not planning to ship this game and walk away. We want to keep supporting ETQW in as many ways as possible. We'll be maintaining the persistent stats servers and the community site, and continuing to support ETQW with updates and improvements.
To help cover this level of on-going support without passing the costs on to the gamer, ETQW will feature appropriate advertisements in select locations of our levels. The ads aren't intrusive and you won't have to interact with them; they'll just be part of the normal environment. In fact, there are some places it's quite odd not to have an advertisement - the sides of container trucks, for example. Great care is being taken to ensure that all our ads are appropriate for the game world and we have absolute approval rights in this area. If it's not appropriate or it's distracting, it won't go in.
The company providing the ad system does not and will not store any personal information or data that otherwise can be used to identify you. All they track is if and how long you look at the advertisements.
For those of you participating in the upcoming beta, you will get a chance to see them for yourself very soon. And of course we will be releasing a demo prior to the retail launch of the game so everyone can check them out first.
Choosing to place ads in Enemy Territory was not a decision we made lightly. However, in doing so we hope to be able to provide a higher level of on-going support to the Enemy Territory: QUAKE Wars community than would have been possible otherwise.
Info on in game advertizing for Quakewars
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#1 -
#2 And so it ends, not with a bang, but a whimper.
That's it, boys and girls, we got ourselves in-game ads, and they're here to stay. -
#3 This seriously is not a big deal as long as they keep them unobtrusive. BF2142's ads are just there. On walls etc.. they do not interfere and I never notice them when playing. So that is fine by me.
If they start getting in the way of game play, slow it down, collect personal information or anything else like that, then I will have a problem with them. So far all the implementation's I have seen have been fine.
At least we do not have to pay $15 a month to play them like other games do. -
#4 Paladin wrote:
This seriously is not a big deal as long as they keep them unobtrusive. BF2142's ads are just there. On walls etc.. they do not interfere and I never notice them when playing. So that is fine by me.
If they start getting in the way of game play, slow it down, collect personal information or anything else like that, then I will have a problem with them. So far all the implementation's I have seen have been fine.
At least we do not have to pay $15 a month to play them like other games do.
Nah, we just pay $5 a slot for ranked servers, which pumps money back into the game company. . .and we have in-game ads, which pumps money back into the game company, and we pay money for the game itself.
I suppose now that it's a done deal, we should work on talking ourselves into it being no big deal. Like commercials at the beginning of a movie you've payed $7 to see. Let's see. . oh, OK! "At least this company offers decent support after the sale." -
#5 At least they are giving us something for the advertising - namely continued support of the game and new content (I think). One of the big mistakes that EA did with BF2142 advertising is not say what we were getting for it. That and the whole spyware rumor fiasco
One advantage of this system is that (in theory) as long as the game is relatively popular it should continue to get supported and updated by Splash Damage because there will be a funding stream.
Doc, I'm not sure that the game developers get anything from the server lease. I haven't seen anything that is definitive either way. -
#6 DocJon wrote:
Nah, we just pay $5 a slot for ranked servers, which pumps money back into the game company. . .and we have in-game ads, which pumps money back into the game company, and we pay money for the game itself.
I suppose now that it's a done deal, we should work on talking ourselves into it being no big deal. Like commercials at the beginning of a movie you've payed $7 to see. Let's see. . oh, OK! "At least this company offers decent support after the sale."
I understand what you are saying man but business is business. If they do not do this then games will cost $80+. I personally like the $50 price that games have been for years now. It is a sweet spot that so far has continued for most games. The price for games has stayed at this price for some time now and for that to continue they need other revenue streams. It is expensive to produce games no matter how you slice it and no matter how you feel, this is probably necessary for them to survive to continue to create new games.
I HATE commercials in my movies but they are not that many. My DVD's also have commercials sometimes but as long as I can skip past them I can deal with it. The problem is on some you cannot and that is annoying. I guess though that if they did not do this then DVD's would cost $30+ instead of $20 and movies would be 30% more.
I am not saying I like these things at all man. I am just saying that it is a competive market place and they will generate revenue any way they can. This is simple economics. You either raise the prices, keep the prices the same and downsize the amount of product (like food) or you devise other ways to keep the price the same.
I still say I am happy that we as yet do not have to pay to play on servers so if you think about it this is a good thing man. Look at WOW players paying $15/month just to play. Now THAT would suck!!!!
Even X-box users pay to play. You bitch now, just wait. It was like pulling teeth to get people here to buy an EA booster pack for a lousy $10 one time purchase and WOW players pay 50% more than that EVERY month!!! What do they really get for that???
I am afraid companies are going to be heading in this direction at some point in the future so if having some REAL ads on the side of a truck or on a wall that would have had a fake ads anyway is the price we pay now to stave that off, that is fine by me. They really are not intrusive so why the worry? -
#7 Paladin wrote:
I understand what you are saying man but business is business. If they do not do this then games will cost $80+. I personally like the $50 price that games have been for years now. It is a sweet spot that so far has continued for most games. The price for games has stayed at this price for some time now and for that to continue they need other revenue streams. It is expensive to produce games no matter how you slice it and no matter how you feel, this is probably necessary for them to survive to continue to create new games.
I HATE commercials in my movies but they are not that many. My DVD's also have commercials sometimes but as long as I can skip past them I can deal with it. The problem is on some you cannot and that is annoying. I guess though that if they did not do this then DVD's would cost $30+ instead of $20 and movies would be 30% more.
I am not saying I like these things at all man. I am just saying that it is a competive market place and they will generate revenue any way they can. This is simple economics. You either raise the prices, keep the prices the same and downsize the amount of product (like food) or you devise other ways to keep the price the same.
I still say I am happy that we as yet do not have to pay to play on servers so if you think about it this is a good thing man. Look at WOW players paying $15/month just to play. Now THAT would suck!!!!
Even X-box users pay to play. You bitch now, just wait. It was like pulling teeth to get people here to buy an EA booster pack for a lousy $10 one time purchase and WOW players pay 50% more than that EVERY month!!! What do they really get for that???
I am afraid companies are going to be heading in this direction at some point in the future so if having some REAL ads on the side of a truck or on a wall that would have had a fake ads anyway is the price we pay now to stave that off, that is fine by me. They really are not intrusive so why the worry?
Mostly good stuff. I can go along with the advertising IF I GET VALUE FROM IT. EA gave us bupkis, and many bugs remain in the core game from day one. EA were masters of bad will before they decided to go to in-game advertising. Showing themselves to be interested in getting more money from us when they couldn't fix long-standing issues with the game we already paid for was just one more thing to piss us off.
Games are pricey to create, and there's real risk involved when they spend that much money and tie up valuable programming and graphic assets in one project. If this helps a good company make a profit and encourages them to keep turning out good games, then there's a silver lining to this. If they support modding and mapmaking, TRY to release a working game and release timely patches as the inevitable bugs are found, then at least we get a good gaming experience. It wouldn't hurt if they hold mapping contests and release winners as ranked maps, either. EA gave us none of that.
That said, the ads better not cause lag, mess up load times, or be anachronistic.Sarge wrote:
Doc, I'm not sure that the game developers get anything from the server lease. I haven't seen anything that is definitive either way.
I'm kinda curious as to the reason for the high-cost of a ranked server, then. Regardless if they get any money or not, it's still money out of a clan's treasury, an added cost to their biggest supporters. It's not like we play for free, as Paladin was saying. Some of us do, but that's because others pick up the tab. -
#8 I dont' like the fact that 'they will only be monitoring what and how long you look at it'. I think that is total bullshit and Paladin you should be ashamed to keep defending these kind of practices. Its a damn pathway from advertisers to you, its going to cause someone lag, probably the poor bastage that has lame dsl service. Its also bloating and distorting the frontend code.... lets just stick in another 15secs loading time per map.
I could see an intel ad that was hardcoded into a map, or coke, whatever. Its the floating spyware types that have been discussed that I'm so against. Again, it would take a fool to not care if your paying good money for an expansion pack loaded with advertising. You want me to see a coke ad, give me the damn map for free or open a path for a mapmaker to do the same.
EA already invented more funds than I've seen in any other game. Ranked plus expansion packs, to the ads in 2142. I downloaded and installed that damn "beta map" and now I get an invalid CD key.. wtf! If I didn't know any better, I'd swear EA was trying to retrofit BF2 with ads.
I just checked AOWC and Gameservers on slot pricing. Both were $1 more for ranked, which seems like a bargain compared to 2yrs prior when it was close to double. That is a HELL of alot of money added up accross the board every month.
I wonder if you would keep defending these business practices if you had a P3 with so/so video and a 512 dsl connection. Its not that you need a dual SLI vid system and FIOS, its the fact you need it to play Battlefields.
I just hate the path QW has taken since just hours after I ordered it. I truely regret buying into it before seeing the demo. -
#9 lexx wrote:
I just hate the path QW has taken since just hours after I ordered it. I truely regret buying into it before seeing the demo.
We'd be better off if you posted more around here. One of your better posts, even if you did slap Pal around a little bit 🙂
Rich, I'm afraid this is where we are at. It's not GONNA happen, it's not MIGHT happen, it IS happening, and it's not going to be just one company. If you want to game, this is what we will have to deal with. The companies that have games in the pipe now, THOSE might be released without ads, but the next ones won't be. It seems EA is not content to merely ruin our experience in THEIR games, but now they've led the way in screwing with all the games. I'm not so naive to think someone else wouldn't have tried in-game ads at some point, but it's really no surprise to me that EA was the first.
The biggest beef I have is that they're monitoring when, and for how long, someone looks at an ad. Programmers have a hard enough time optimizing net code, getting hitboxes to work correctly, etc, and now they have to throw this into the real-time mix. DL new ads at the beginning of the map if you must, but for the love of God don't start fucking with the game-code to see if someone's looking at a damn BILLBOARD!!!!!!!!!!! -
#10 Yah Doc, I know. WE didn't know this however when the shipping date was only 3 weeks away and they were taking orders and down pmts for it. Rolling back the shipping date to add ranking and ingame ads AFTER canceling the June rollout date was a deal breaker as far as I'm concerned.
Agreed. We would all be enjoying UT07 "right now" had everyone refused to buy 2142. Epic apparently saw the sales EA raked in despite the complaints, and started taking advice from the same smacktards that so enrich our BF2 experience.
This group of 14yr olds have more or less convinced Epic to scratch 07', rollout UT3 with 'greatly enhanced ranking statistics'. The further delay must mean they will also be adding in-game advertising because thier 'userbase' agrees its not such a bad thing after all!
And no by damn. I'd rather pay $70 or more to keep UT3 free of bloated code, ranking system, and spyware that ruined BF2 and its bastard spawns.
The only diff between BF's ranking and UT's ranking is simply weapon tradeups and useless ribbons. If they ruin UT3 to this great a degree, I just may pass it by and stick to 04'. -
#11 lexx wrote:
Yah Doc, I know. WE didn't know this however when the shipping date was only 3 weeks away and they were taking orders and down pmts for it. Rolling back the shipping date to add ranking and ingame ads AFTER canceling the June rollout date was a deal breaker as far as I'm concerned.
The only diff between BF's ranking and UT's ranking is simply weapon tradeups and useless ribbons. If they ruin UT3 to this great a degree, I just may pass it by and stick to 04'.
My problem is, it's going to be hard to say no to ads in-game when EVERY game company does it. The only recourse will be to play only old games, or not to play. Ads can't be a deal-breaker for me, when I have no alternative. Boycotting all the games will have no effect, as too many people will not give up gaming to make a statement. The only real effect it will have is to keep the handful of people boycotting from having fun. It's not right, but that's how it's gonna be.
You make it sound as though the next UT will be greatly changed because of the ranking thing. Have they decided to change the gameplay, in addition to adding the ranking BS? I just hope that QW and the new UT ship with good tools, because it seems like we'll need to lean heavily on the community for games and content we want. -
#12 There are a couple of things that we can do I think.
First, there will be a software work around to block the ads I am sure. Maybe they won't work for long or maybe they will I don't know. Maybe simply closing a port on your router might do it as well.
However, what might be more effective in the long run is to simply refuse to buy anything that is advertised in game. If enough people do this, and state it publicly, maybe it will effect the marketers willingness to pay for advertising and it will no longer be the thing to do.
I think I would have held back from pre-ordering had I known this was happening as well. The whole practice galls me. It's like putting ads in the movies that they play on HBO.
While they may be unobtrusive and "fit" into the environment, the very fact that I know someone is trying to sell me something is going to bother me every time I pass by one of the ads. I'd much rather that they added 50 cents or a dollar per slot for server costs than do this. -
#13 Lexx I explained it as best I could. It is obvious you did not understand anything I said. It is obvious you do not understand how businesses work. You are self employed with your own business so I thought you would know better. What do you do when the costs of materials go up? You raise your prices. What if you wanted to keep your prices the same but those materials still cost you more? If an option to do so came around for you to do so by including say a small stamp in the corner of a cabinet for one of the materials suppliers that was hardly noticeable but cut the cost by 1/3. Would you do that? Maybe not but others may undercutting you.
So you expect to get ads only if they give you the game itself AND extra maps or whatever.. So in your business prospect they should not make any money on the ads at all then since they now have to give you even more on top of the game?
So basically when the game costs $80 to buy and you get a free map later on for the ad revenues you will be happy??? If they do not get the ad revenue to offset the game costs then it has to come from someplace so the initial game price will go up. Now this is bad business since the initial game costs at such a high price would put people off effecting sales to begin with. Have you noticed that you now get half the toilet paper per roll as you used to get but at the same price?? Where is the bitching for this? A lot of products downsize to keep the price the same as people notice price differences more than they do content weight.
A game cannot shrink the DVD to keep the price competitive so they have to generate extra revenue somehow man. It is in game ads or they start charging a monthly fee for us to play like WOW does. Which do you want??? Remember a company still has to make a profit and answer to stock holders etc... You need to read more on what is involved in creating games.
So in game ads are here to stay just like previews and ads on DVD's and at the movies.
I see TONS of ads on every damn web site. It helps cover the costs of the site. yes it is different as web sites are free usually but the idea is the same. I think a lot of them are well places just like in game ads so they do not bother me. If the in game ones get annoying then i will re think things a bit but i still understand business.
Do not hate a new technology just because you hate EA so much. Fine EA may not have done it 100% correctly, fine. This not about EA and buggy games and practices then slapping ads in on us. That is of course frustrating but as I said just because this is a game always remember that this is a business in the end.
I do not WANT ads, I just understand a need for them to generate revenue.
You also state everything like the ads are going to be this HUGE download and graphic intensive thing. Lexx it downloads a simple graphic that will not take much longer to DL than the map does. How huge is a frekin jpeg??? You will not even see it even over that really slow DSL connection!
As for performance it is a graphic drawn in the game. How in the hell will drawing a graphic on a wall or truck be any more CPU intensive than drawing the wall itself. For FU&& sake man get real. The game is capable of drawing graphics!!!!
The spyware problem is an issue and if it is known that this starts reading personal info then that will be a different issue. It states that it does not. EA stats they do not even through the unfounded hype. if this is found to be not true then the company will lose credibility and probably suffer law suites believe me.
I resent you saying I should be ashamed man, that was low. I do not WANT this shit. I just understand why they have to do it. Game prices stay the same and costs go up so the difference has to come from someplace. Basic economics man and I for one do not want to pay a monthly fee to play my games. Lexx you seem to want everything for free.
Let me ask you guys, would you rather pay $80-$100 for the game to be ad free? Would you pay $50 plus a monthly fee for the game to be ad free? Answer yes to them then we will talk. Guys the price for a game is still about $50, this has not changed in YEARS and you cannot tell me that costs have not gone up in that time. -
#14 DocJon wrote:
You make it sound as though the next UT will be greatly changed because of the ranking thing. Have they decided to change the gameplay, in addition to adding the ranking BS? I just hope that QW and the new UT ship with good tools, because it seems like we'll need to lean heavily on the community for games and content we want.
First, keep in mind... Both UT07 and QW:ET were both "finished and ready for beta testing" at one time this year. UT forums are flooded with these kids that say "bring on the ranking, I wanna pwn, and I dont' care what it costs my mommy".
The only solution I have is to not buy these games until it puts some kinda dent on the bean counters. There isn't going to be a port to worry about, your giving the spyware full access via the game .exe. There won't be any software fixes for it. Call it what it is, it sends back info of what you see and how long, Spyware! I dont' give a crap how small it is, its doesn't belong in the game.
Paladin you always take EA's side and caution us in the ways of doing business. I made a harsh statement, I am sorry for that, but I still disagree with you on this one. In game spyware and pseudo ranking systems do not make a game successful. Maybe your just used to it since you don't mind TiVo watching and sending back everything you do, and you pay for that 🙂
Myself, I'd personally like to see QW tank and burn on the vine, but there are way tooooo many bored 'I wanna pwn with mommy's money' smacktards out there.Paladin wrote:
I resent you saying I should be ashamed man, that was low. I do not WANT this shit. I just understand why they have to do it. Game prices stay the same and costs go up so the difference has to come from someplace. Basic economics man and I for one do not want to pay a monthly fee to play my games. Lexx you seem to want everything for free.
Let me ask you guys, would you rather pay $80-$100 for the game to be ad free? Would you pay $50 plus a monthly fee for the game to be ad free? Answer yes to them then we will talk. Guys the price for a game is still about $50, this has not changed in YEARS and you cannot tell me that costs have not gone up in that time.
I said I was sorry before. That was harsh. See the difference is I paid for my copy of the game. The price of admission was $50. Thats far from free. If they want to make $100 for each copy, then charge that much for each copy, instead of sticking it to you everytime you load a map, or visit a ranked server. -
#15 lexx wrote:
The only solution I have is to not buy these games until it puts some kinda dent on the bean counters. There isn't going to be a port to worry about, your giving the spyware full access via the game .exe. There won't be any software fixes for it. Call it what it is, it sends back info of what you see and how long, Spyware! I dont' give a crap how small it is, its doesn't belong in the game.
Lexx it is not spyware to keep track of how long you look at an in game advertisements. If they do not collect personal information then it is just keeping track of stats just like your game stats. If they do collect personal info, and say they do not, then that is wrong and will be dealt with in court I am sure. You need to learn the difference. To you everything is spyware.
Do you use a cookie manager with your browser? I bet you do not and yet every time you visit web sites they are collecting data on your web habits. You are letting emotion override logic. 😉
lexx wrote:
Paladin you always take EA's side and caution us in the ways of doing business. ...
In game spyware and pseudo ranking systems do not make a game successful. Maybe your just used to it since you don't mind TiVo watching and sending back everything you do, and you pay for that 🙂
I do not take EA's side man. I hate the fact that they have not fixed certain bugs as much as the next person. I just have a good understanding of large business. Understanding the need to generate more revenue does not make me support the company for other things they fuc*ed up.lexx wrote:
Myself, I'd personally like to see QW tank and burn on the vine, but there are way tooooo many bored 'I wanna pwn with mommy's money' smacktards out there.
Wow that is so harsh for a game that is not out yet just because they make you see an ad. You did not bitch about this in 2142 at all. You bitched about the control save issue but not the ads until now. You just really do not understand business man.... This really is such a non issue it is funny.lexx wrote:
See the difference is I paid for my copy of the game. The price of admission was $50. Thats far from free. If they want to make $100 for each copy, then charge that much for each copy, instead of sticking it to you every time you load a map, or visit a ranked server.
How is it sticking it to you slapping a graphic on the side of a wall???
See right here is the problem. You know as well as I do that if you go to the store and see a game for $100 you would not buy it. I probably wouldn't. That is a lot for a game. Most people would be put off by this this is the entire point. They cannot charge that much and actually sell enough so they have to supplement the revenue stream somehow. I do not want to pay monthly fees so am willing to see an Intel ad on the side of a truck. Damn this is so trivial and yet is a huge deal. As long as they are not collecting personal info who cares?????? -
#16 Paladin wrote:
I see TONS of ads on every damn web site. It helps cover the costs of the site. yes it is different as web sites are free usually but the idea is the same.
Wait a second.. I payed good money for this operating system that gave me Internet Explorer. And I pay a monthly fee for my connection to these websites.. W.T.F. Mate..
All I have to say to all of this is TASTAAFL. -
#17 Sarge wrote:
There are a couple of things that we can do I think.
First, there will be a software work around to block the ads I am sure. Maybe they won't work for long or maybe they will I don't know. Maybe simply closing a port on your router might do it as well.
However, what might be more effective in the long run is to simply refuse to buy anything that is advertised in game. If enough people do this, and state it publicly, maybe it will effect the marketers willingness to pay for advertising and it will no longer be the thing to do.
I can see it now. No one buys another Intel chip 😉Sarge wrote:
I think I would have held back from pre-ordering had I known this was happening as well. The whole practice galls me. It's like putting ads in the movies that they play on HBO.
While they may be unobtrusive and "fit" into the environment, the very fact that I know someone is trying to sell me something is going to bother me every time I pass by one of the ads. I'd much rather that they added 50 cents or a dollar per slot for server costs than do this.
Seriously it is not a big deal. man I never even really noticed the ads in 2142. They are just there. No different than a few of the static billboards, like oil fields, in BF2. It is just part of the scenery.
They are not (and should not be in future games) huge flashing distracting ads guys. It is just part of the level. At least in 2142, they are very well done as far as being un-obtrusive. I remember they were not turned on at first, I did not notice when they were finally turned on. All of a sudden one day I noticed that it said Intel on a sign on a wall. It was so part of the back drop that I did not even notice it for awhile.
Keeping track of how long you look at it won't effect anything performance wise. There is so much stuff going on in game each cycle, tracking everything else you do stat wise, this will just be one more. -
#18 With all due respect my friend, its not the cost of doing business. Its the cost of doing business with newer shady internet practices embraced by EA, and now QW.
When I ordered QW and put down my visa, it was due in 3 weeks. Hours later it was canceled, a week later a ranking system was announced, and two weeks later ingame ads were announced. I call that a deal breaker and I hope they fuckin tank and burn.
If I wanted another game following the same rules as EA, I wouldn't care. I hate the changes EA made to ruin the game for me. Its a godawful loading piece of shit that has just taken a 2yr toll on me. I for my own selfish reason appreciate a program like UT that has ranking, reasonably priced servers, loads and plays in seconds, and has provided nothing but entertainment along with free ranking stats for 3.5yrs.
Don't even try to tell me EA or QW needs this shit to maintain a ranking system. Its bullshit.
I bitched about all of this with 2142, yet I was foolish enough to buy it. The control issue, the buggy ass frontend and the stupid do nothing ads throughout the game just broke my patience and I erased the damn thing and gave it to my kid.
I understand the cost of doing business, but it doesn't have to go to these extremes. I'm afraid they can just go on without me, as I'll never f'in pay a monthy fee or buy into anything that tries to use an RPG incentive to intice WoW or GW players. I wouldn't pay these fees for my own children, I sure as hell won't for myself.
This is the one single issue that has divided and kept this clan divided since the first expansion pack came out for BF2. This is just going to be further compounded by QW and anything resembling EA in the near future. -
#19 Maybe they can do business without ads, maybe they can't. The trouble is when BF2142 poured the ad laced cool-aide enough people went running to drink it.
I'm with you Lexx, not trilled about the changes and delays. We'll see how the product pans out. I may very well be done gaming for a while,maybe I won't have a problem with the changes. I will give the demo a chance and let that decide. When it's not fun I will not waste my time and money with it. That is my decision to make, that is Lexx's decision to make, Paladin Doc, that is your decision to make.
You have to respect if someone has a different opinion than you. You guys got pissy when I wouldn't post my location on a map. I enjoy my privacy. I undertstand posting my location on a map might not make a difference, but well I didn't want to do it. I understand my privacy will never be as good as I like it to be, but I do what I can to keep it. I understand 99.9% of the people in the world don't get so anal retentive about their privacy. Thats cool I don't care if you enjoy junk mail, and telemarketing...etc -
#20 EA's efforts to bring ads to their games was based on increasing the Return on Investment. They gave nothing back to the person who bought the game in the first place.
Splash Damage claims they will use this money for good, not evil. We will see. Until then, I will give them the benefit of the doubt because, unlike EA, they have given me no reason to disbelieve them. Yet....
This is bigger than you realize. Let me show you some headlines from earlier this year.
Google Buys In-Game Advertising Company. By ... February 16, 2007
Microsoft Buys In-Game Advertising Company Massive ... April 26, 2007
Do I like it? Nope. Can I stop it? Nope. Should I sweat it? Nope. It's here and it is not going anywhere.
Paladin, I understand your point about MMORPG's monthly fee, but it is a red herring in this case. You are comparing apples and oranges.
A persistent world cost big money to run. When you hear the phrase Game Server for World of Warcraft, you think one box. That is not the case. I imagine each "server" is comprised of a cluster of servers including multiple clusters of Database servers to track everything and to maintain balance. Then you have the cost of supporting your end users each month, plus dealing with billing. And the final piece, which costs them a pretty penny, is bandwidth. Let's take a look at some numbers.
Our 40 player BF2 unranked server ran at 8Mbps when full. So, that breaks down to .50Mbps for each player. Now, I do not know the bandwidth measurements for a WoW connection, but since it can not be played via Dial up, I will make an assumption that is similar to BF2's requirements. There are 8 Million WoW Players. For the sake of argument, lets say 25% of them are playing at the same time.
2 Million players X .50Mbps = 1,000,000Mbps. That is 1 Terrabit Per Second at any given time.
So, I ask you, why do they charge $15 a month? -
#21 Atomm wrote:
2 Million players X .50Mbps = 1,000,000Mbps. That is 1 Terrabit Per Second at any given time.
So, I ask you, why do they charge $15 a month?
sheesh whatever man, I used to get that with my 1200baud, my 300 could almost pull it off but it introduced a touch of lag. 😏 -
#22 BTW, I made a mistake. It's .2Mbps, but still, thats a lot of bandwidth.
2,000,000 x .2 = 400,000 or 1/2 a terrabit per second. Still nothing to sneeze at.
I also remember reading back when the whole net neutrality was being debated that wow accounted for the second largest consumption of consumer ISP bandwidth behind Bit Torrent. -
#23 Bubbaspanky wrote:
Maybe they can do business without ads, maybe they can't. The trouble is when BF2142 poured the ad laced cool-aide enough people went running to drink it.
I'm with you Lexx, not trilled about the changes and delays. We'll see how the product pans out. I may very well be done gaming for a while,maybe I won't have a problem with the changes. I will give the demo a chance and let that decide. When it's not fun I will not waste my time and money with it. That is my decision to make, that is Lexx's decision to make, Paladin Doc, that is your decision to make.
You have to respect if someone has a different opinion than you. You guys got pissy when I wouldn't post my location on a map. I enjoy my privacy. I undertstand posting my location on a map might not make a difference, but well I didn't want to do it. I understand my privacy will never be as good as I like it to be, but I do what I can to keep it. I understand 99.9% of the people in the world don't get so anal retentive about their privacy. Thats cool I don't care if you enjoy junk mail, and telemarketing...etc
Funny thing is I did not really bitch about the map location but it was just the city not your street address. I really did not care that much. I also take precautions about my privacy. Weird thing though is I also remember a post by you awhile back stating that how no one here even knows your real name, but how could we if you are so private?
I do respect people with different opinions. It just seems to me no one respects mine. -
#24 This is from a poll on the QW forums right now. Interestingly most are neutral to against the in game advertisements. There are a lot more people who are still likely to buy the game but are going to try and block them than I expected.
Someone also dug out the info that the advertising company gathers.From QW Forums wrote:WHAT INFORMATION ABOUT GAMING ACTIVITY DO WE (Massive Incorporated) COLLECT?
We may collect non-personally identifiable information ("Non-PII") to help our partners better determine which advertisements or content to show or not to show game players, and for the other uses described in this Privacy Policy. Non-PII may include the following:
1. Internet Protocol (âIPâ) Address. We collect IP addresses when game players play video games that connect to our servers. Many IP Addresses are commonly associated with Internet service providers, universities, or major corporations in specific regions or localities and cannot be used to identify a particular game player.
2. Length of Game Session. We collect the start time and stop time of game sessions.
3. Game Title. We collect the titles of video games that connect to our servers.
4. Advertising Delivered. We collect basic information about advertisements that we deliver to video games that connect to our servers as well as aggregate metrics associated with how advertisements are rendered (i.e. time and size on screen).
In addition, we may collect anonymous data, and in some cases, player registration data that we use to categorize a specific computer or gaming platform. We often convert this data into a non-reversible unique number to count unique players, somewhat like an indicator noting, "This game platform connected to the Massive Ad server at this time." It also tells us that a game playerâs game platform has viewed an advertisement at a specific time and how many times an advertisement was seen. When our game publisher partners contract with us to deliver ads on their behalf, we assign a unique number to every game platform that connects to our ad servers. We do not associate the unique game platform data with, and we do not have access to, a game playerâs name, address, phone number, email address or other PII.
...
We retain the raw file logs of all logged information in a database that is not accessed other than for auditing purposes. Massive will not provide the raw log files to third parties for business purposes unrelated to audits, although we may in special cases if required to do so by law, court order or other governmental authority or when we believe disclosing this information is otherwise necessary or advisable. We may also share information we collect with third party service providers to manage certain aspects of the services we provide, such as trouble-shooting and maintaining our servers. We may retain aggregated information.
