My dead computer

OK, my computer went bye-byes last week, and I still haven't figured out why. I don't know if you folks can help, given the problems of not being able to see it, and my own lack of debugging-fu, but maybe I'll get lucky and one of you will have a brainstorm.

Currently, I'm using the old Dell I talked about a few months ago (built in 2000). It's an AMD that's supposed to be the equvilent of a low end p3, but with 56meg memory and on-board gfx, I'm finding it to be closer to a p1. I can't even run a web browser more current than IE 5. I've tried. It's a real pill.

I don't know what's wrong with my computer, exactly. One early morning a storm woke me up. Before I was awake enough to get over to my machine to turn it off, lightning hit real close by, my speakers crackled, and the machine went off. Nothing else in the house was affected, except for flickering lights, and we didn't even lose power. Must've been a surge. I don't have a UPS, and the power strip breakers weren't tripped. I push the power button on the computer - nothing.

The light on the motherboard was on, so it's getting SOME power.

I opened it up, but it didn't smell like anything had burned out.

CPU looks OK, doesn't smell like smoke.

I opened up the power supply, vaccumed out the dust. Again, I don't smell any burnt odor, and nothing looked obviously bad. . .but since it's a PS, I really didn't want to poke around in it TOO MUCH (capacitors and such), and it was pretty crowded. It APPEARS to have a fuse(from what's printed on the board), but it's soldered to the board vertically, is covered in a kind of black shrinkwrap, and again, it's too crowded to get a good look at. It's an Antec Smartblue 350, not a cheap generic PS. You'd think they'd put a real replacable fuse in it.

No burnt smell anywhere in the case.

I reset the BIOS (moved the jumper), but nothing happened.

I guess the question would be, "What will a surge destroy first, and will/might it be contained to a single component, or will several be fried?"

Oh well. Any ideas?

I know this may be a silly question, but have you tried plugging the computer directly into the wall?

It's possible the power switch is the problem. You can bypass the switch by using a plastic handle screwdriver briefly touching the two pins the power button is connected too. And yes, I know it's scary, but it's the easiest way I know to bypass this short of finding another switch.

Look at the Mobo. Do the capacitors look bulky as if they are ballooning? Are they being pushed to one side from expansion on the bottom? Do you see anything leaking from them? If any of these are yes, even if it's not the main problem, your Mobo should be replaced as it will cause even further issues.

If that doesn't work, I would tear down the system to the basics including uplugging everything from the mobo and power supply.
Power Supply - Mobo - CPU

Nothing else. If that doesn't work, then chances are you have a bad PS or Mobo or both. The only way I know to test this is to swap the PS. If it works, then the PS was bad. If it doesn't, chances are it's your mobo.

I know this is a pain, but short of taking it to a computer shop and letting them test the PS rails, it's the only way I know to narrow it down. And remember to keep track of what you've done and how it went. It's easy to miss something.

Keep us updated on your progress.

I have a powersupply tester I will ship to you if you promise to ship it back. beyond that what Atomm said. I would also remove everything from the system... i.e. take out ram, and all cards, see if it fires up, then add one by one if it does. My guess is powersupply, it may have been too small and then finally fried (it happens more than you would think).

A surge can get anything and it could get everything. Not very typical though.

let me know and I will ship the PS tester on Monday

I did try bypassing the power strip. The computer I'm on now is plugged into the power strip. None of the components look to be bad, burnt, leaky or exploded, as far as I can see. I'll try the other things you suggest, Atomm, and post back.

Bubba, I suspect it's the PS, but it's sometimes tricky to tell. When my machine was only 3 months old, the motherboard sagged and shorted out (it was an Asus, and it had a design defect - it didn't have enough support to handle even the stock heat sink/fan.) In addition to my motherboard, it blew out my power supply and RAM as well. Asus replaced the motherboard, but by that time, I'd already bought an Intel board to replace it, as well as more RAM and a new PS. Hey, thanks Asus!

I had bought a PS tester for about $12 at CompUSA when I bought the 2nd board. . .even though the "tester" said the PS was OK, the machine wouldn't run until I replaced it. I threw that tester out, as it actually extended the time it took me to figure out the trouble! Is your PS tester like that one, do you think, or is it a better one? It was a small plastic doo-dad with various LEDs that lit up telling you if the PS was good or not, and it cost $12. . .the $12 price should've been my first clue that it wasn't gonna help 🙂

You think the PS was too small, Bubba? The one that it replaced was 400 watts, but CompUSA didn't have any more. Yeah, in retrospect, I'm sure I was pushing it, especially after a few years of add-ons. . .2 Gig RAM, 2 HD's, 2 DVD's, 800xt gfx card, soundblaster LIVE, 3 gHz CPU. . . yup, should've had more horsepower.

Thanks guys.

I tried to short the "On" pins together - nothing. . .so it's not the switch.

I wanted to clarify what I mean when I said nothing happens when I turn it on. Really, nothing happens. No fans anywhere, nothing. The only sign that there is any power is a green light on the motherboard. Could the PS be shot, and still deliver consistant juice to power the green LED on the motherboard? No, don't answer that, I've seen a bad PS power a computer enough to make me think it's every other component BUT the PS. . . I guess without any further info, part-swapping, or testing, it looks like the PS. . .until I get a new PS and still have the problem, anyway.

Doc, if a powersupply is way underpowered, it will show on any tester as fine they measure voltage not wattage. I would suspect it is the ps. Rarely do things kill a ps plus other parts in my experience. I honestly would goto bestbuy, buy a ps and test it. If it still doesn't work bring the ps back.

Bubbaspanky wrote:Doc, if a powersupply is way underpowered, it will show on any tester as fine they measure voltage not wattage. I would suspect it is the ps. Rarely do things kill a ps plus other parts in my experience. I honestly would goto bestbuy, buy a ps and test it. If it still doesn't work bring the ps back.

That's pretty much where I've been leaning, but I wanted to pick GRB's collective brain on this first. Most of my experience with computers is from the handful I've built & owned. Some of you guys have quite a bit more experience than that.

I think you are on the right track.

It's a toss up, but if you really think it's the PS, the good rated ones start at $35 on Newegg.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList....RICE&Page=2

Otherwise, BB is going to be a lot higher.

Atomm wrote:I think you are on the right track.

It's a toss up, but if you really think it's the PS, the good rated ones start at $35 on Newegg.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList....RICE&Page=2

Otherwise, BB is going to be a lot higher.

Whoa now, which is it? Am I on the right track, or is it a toss-up?

If I get it from NewEgg, I'll try to go thru your referral link. Will you get credit if I use the one above?

LOL!

That didn't come out right. Toss up referred to getting it at BB for a higher price with an easy return or buying it at Newegg for a lower price, but not worth returning due to shipping costs.

Either way is fine for the link. If you go through the main page and search for PS 401-500 watts, sort by price and go to page 2, you'll see the same thing I posted.

Suh-WING and a miss!

Well, I got a new 400 watt PS at Best Buy (30 day return policy). The old one was 350 watts. . .

I tried the new PS. If the old one is dead, then it's not the only dead component, because the new one didn't help. Nothing again.

I didn't pull the gfx card, the RAM, or the sound card, but I didn't have ANY drives plugged in, DVD or HD. Would any of those components keep the PS & CPU fan from spinning, even if they're fried? I wouldn't think so. I'm thinking it's the motherboard or CPU, or both. . .or more.

Let this be a lesson to you boys and girls. . . that $80 UPS doesn't just sit there and do nothing. Got one.

Huh... I have seen a dead vid card cause such trouble, but very very rare. My guess is the proc fried.

Yah, it does sound like the CPU may be the culprit. I'd unplug everything and remove the CPU. Funny thing is I think it should make some kinda signals from the piza speaker, beeps for no vid card, ram missing or bad. I just don't see any of those stopping the power supply fan from firing up.

Unplugged HD's, etc, will only prompt for you to insert a disk of an OS to boot from, so having those unplugged is not a factor.

Man, that sucks.....

A fried proc will often keep the mobo and ps from firing up. not always, but I have seen it several times.

Heh, this brings back a memory of a city worker that used to live next door. He was a mechanic for the city/parks dept. We used to call him a 'part changer' because he rarely knew what was wrong the first time and had an unlimited number of parts in stock.

Next generation, and we're still part changers 🙂

Oh well. Thanks for the help guys. I've decided my P4 machine is cursed - just 3 months after building it I had to replace the motherboard, the power supply, and all the memory when my original Asus motherboard exhibited a known defect and shorted out half my system. Asus did eventually send me a fixed revision, but by then I'd bought a new Intel board. Last year, I needed a new CPU. . .now this.

Of the original equipment, only the first HD and sound card remain - though the gfx card was replaced for performance reasons, and the CD drive was replaced with a DVD-RW. Not a great track record.

I'll tell you Doc that is why I stopped using Asus. I was a fanboy in the day, they made the best, they were a little more, but they made the best. Then I started having all sorts of little shit issues like yours and finally said enough. I don't use them anymore. I like MSI alot, ECS sux.

Hmmm. . .I bought a P4 3.0 ghz processor a year ago for about $80 new. I wonder what a 2.8 - 3.0 ghz P4 and motherboard would cost USED. Folks over on the Anandtech site are always upgrading and selling off their old stuff. . .Ebay would be pricier, and less likely to deliver a good product.

Something for me to think about.

Yah you have to be careful to upgrade. It can run up in costs quite a bit. If you can find a used AM2/moto that will use the pciE video AND your ram, great. I couldn't find any that would use my old 3200ram. Also, I had to get a new power supply to handle the pciE card, but some of the newer 85/6xx cards don't need that power connector.

I unplugged my server's vid card, system beeped. Removed the ram, it beeped, removed the HD's, it just prompted for a OS disk to be inserted. All the while, the powersuppy and green led still worked however. Just a quick test to tell you how my similar system worked.


If I was you, I'd visit asus and gigabytes homepages, and search for moto's that use your ram and make a note of any that use pciE and amd2 cpus. Beware of the am2. There are two versions, one is called something like a 790socket and maxes out at 2.2mhz. You want to fiind a AM2 chip that starts at 1.6 (i think) and goes up towards a nice max. I picked up a 2.4 for $85 at egghead.

Wish I had one laying around for ya, but I gave mine away. I see one new at newegg for 54

Well, I'll see what's available, and for what price, and I'll check out the manufacturer's website for details on the likely candidates. I'll see if I can get a CPU/Mobo combo, and that will avoid any issues between them, at least. I was going to stick with the AGP cards, since that's what I have. Even if my x800xt got fried as well, I'll still have my All-in-Wonder 9600xt to throw in. I don't have ANY PCI-E cards.

That brings up an intriguing idea, though. I'll have to see how much it would cost to change this from a repair job to a slight upgrade situation. Bubba also points out that the price NEW isn't that high. . . I'll just have to see what I dig up.

Hey Bubba, I really appreciate the offer anyway. I had a spare mobo as well - remember Asus eventually sent me a replacement for the one that so thoroughly fried my system? Well, I gave it to someone a couple years back so they could build a new system. . .oh well, such is life. 🙂

Doc, if you want a PCI-E card, talk to Sarge. 6600GT if he still has it.

I mean, if you are going to spend the money anyway, don't limit yourself in the future.

I've still got the 6600 somewhere close by. If you want/need it, let me know where to send it.

Thanks guys. I REALLY appreciate the offer. Now all I have to do is work out the pesky details of building the machine to wrap around it for an insanely low price, with the added problems that I'm not sure what parts will need to be replaced, but I'm sure that won't be an issue at all 🙂

Seriously though, thanks.

Does anyone here know if there is a calculator on the web where you can punch in your cpu, video, and ram type that will come up with a list of motherboards that match?

If he can search for a P4 single core, 3200 400 ram, and a pciE video slot that would get him fixed up and updated to pcie at the same time. That ATI 800 is the sole reason I upgraded a few months ago. If he can get past that old video card, then everything else out will work fine.

I usually look at what chipsets are available and what they support. I know I priced a Duo 2 Core mobo the other day for $54 by looking for chipsets that also support Pentium D's.

Search Newegg and look at the mobo's that support certain things. You can narrow it down by all sorts of different criteria. It should also give you a good idea of cost depending on the router you take.

Doc, does your power supply support 24Pin mobo connectors and/or 4/6 pin connectors for mobo/video card?

So, here's a challenge. Who can put together the cheapest but powerful system?

Mobo
CPU
2GB Memory

I didn't do a lot of research here, so details would need to be verified, but I was able to throw some stuff together rather cheap on Newegg.

This is the exact same chip I am running and I love it. The mobo is Gigabyte with room to grow and the memory is 2x1GB Kingston. I'd still verify the Memory works with the mobo, but at $280.97, it should last a while.

https://secure.newegg.com/NewVersion/Wishli...shListTitle=Doc

This is going the cheaper, smaller route. At $212, it's a heck of a deal. It's a mircro ATX mobo, so only two PCI slots and only 2 memory slots, but at less than $50, it would still work for quite some time. The CPU is a slightly lower level Duo 2 Core, but I haven't looked into this line of Duo 2 Cores. The memory is identical to above and should be verified against the mobo.

The power supply will play a part in these new systems, but as long as you can use the one you have, you'll be smoking in no time. Err, that's sort of like break a leg. I don't mean your computer should smoke, err.... NM.....

You can also get the Conroe 1.86 with 4Mb of L2 Cache (instead of 2Mb) and the fast bus speed for only like $10 more. (I think it was $15 more last may when i bought)

Wow! Lotta suggestions going 'round here!

OK, since you guys are being so helpful, and seem to be up for the challenge, here's some more info, and preferred goal/outcome.

Minimum goal:
Get back the performance of my p4 3ghz, 2 gig, x800xt system

Hopeful goal:
Get a little better than the above, with SOMETHING of an upgrade path for the future. PCI-E, faster CPU, etc. If the CPU rates as good as my old P4, that's great. Hopefully, the motherboard will allow for a better CPU in the future. If this gets me another solid year-18 months, it's great. If it would play, say, Frontlines pretty well at 800x600 or 1024 x 768, we're doing GREAT.

Finances:
I'm shooting for $250 for motherboard, CPU, and power supply. Extended to $300 if I need to buy a Gig of RAM, should my current four sticks be fried - quite possible, IMO. If we can't hit that goal, then we'll try to get CLOSE. This isn't a voluntary, planned upgrade. Lightning hit, and now I gotta do what I can, hence the insanely low budget. It would be nice if I knew if my RAM was good, then I wouldn't have to hold back $50.

Overview:
I am working on the assumption that the motherboard and CPU is shot. I am also hedging my bets as far as the memory and PS go. I wouldn't be surprised if they're fried as well. The gfx card will be replaced, so we don't have to worry about if it's still good, and I have a spare Soundblaster Live! if it's needed. I once had a power surge that blew ONLY the sound card, so I wouldn't be surprised if it's shot as well. I'm crossing my fingers that at least one HD & DVD burner made it.

The power supply is 350 watts, has a 20-pin motherboard connector and no connector that is designed especially for any gfx cards. It's an Antec Smartblue, so it probably delivers close to 350 watts, unlike some off-brand PS's that may SAY 550 watts, but don't deliver close to that in real-world usage. Still, it's old, and just because it's not the ONLY problem my computer has, that doesn't mean it's not also fried. So, to sum up, it's old, low-powered, wasn't designed to plug into a gfx card, won't directly plug into the new motherboard without an adaptor, and was involved in the power surge that destroyed an unknown number of components. It really sounds like it's time to replace it, doesn't it?

The case. . .it's a mid-tower. I can't remember the formfactor. I don't have the motherboard manual, and although the box has a lot of info on it, it doesn't mention the formfactor. Well, the motherboard is an Intel D865PERL. Whatever formfactor that board takes - it's probably ATX. I know it's not BTX. It has slots for four DVD drives, 2 floppies, and a few HD's.

Memory. 1 pair of Corsair 512MB DDR, 1 pair of Mushkin 512MB DDR. I can't remove the memory to look at it without pulling the gfx card also, but the Mushkin says on the side "PC3500 Level One 512MB 2:3:3 DDR" I remember when I bought the second pair that I didn't want one set to bring down the performace of the other, so the Corsair set should be the same. It would be nice if this memory could work in the next board, but I'm also worried that I'll find all four sticks are fried, so I'm going into this with the idea that memory might be necessary. If so, I'll pick up one Gig to get me by awhile, and I'll budget an add'l $50 for that, if necessary, and if that's a realistic price (I haven't priced memory for awhile)

Drives: 2 HD's, 2 DVD drives. All IDE, NOT those newer drives with the thin cables - serial? Hopefully some of them still work.

I used to want a lot of expansion, but I haven't really used it in years. The only thing I have now, besides the GFX card, is the PCI Soundblaster Live! If the motherboard doesn't have network connection, then I'll need a network card. Room for one or 2 more things should be enough. When the newly fixed computer gets replaced down the line with a newer model, it will become a multimedia machine, so room for a capture card would he helpful.

OK, I'm gonna go carefully read what you guys have suggested, and see if I can pull up any links you've provided. . .always an iffy, and lengthy, proposition these days.

Thanks for all your suggestions.

<sniff!> You touch a brother's heart, man. . .

http://3btech.net/3ducoinpedmo.html

This is a MSI 2.8 DCPentium, with 1 gig of ram included, $139.oo Add another gig of ram and your at only $178.oo

Looks to have everything you'd need.

For this, and the several other awesome links he emailed to me, I am declaring Lexx, "King of the Internet".

Please accord him all the deference and respect accorded one of his station.

Thank you.

Geez this machine sucks. It takes five minutes to open the thread, 3 minutes to open the reply window. . .5-10 seconds for the context menu to come up when you right click. . .a couple seconds to redraw the window when I move it. Sweet zombie Jesus. . .

(Maxwell Smart)
"This is the SECOND worst computer I've ever used!"
(/Maxwell Smart)

The worst one was in winter of 2006, when my CPU broke (I was cleaning out the dust in the fan/heatsink, and the cpu came up with it. Little known fact: after a couple years, thermal paste turns into epoxy.) I needed another computer to order the replacement. I went over to my stepsister's house to use hers. The amount of viruses and malware on that machine must've equalled the variety of microbes at the city dump. That damn machine took over 20 minutes to BOOT! I know, I timed it. 21 minutes and I forget the seconds. When she finally took the machine into the shop last year, the techs were most impressed.

Thinking on it, I think it may be a tie.


Anyone have any thoughts/warnings on the Internet King's find? I guess I'll go to the library tomorrow and try to do some research, 'cuz I'm not gonna get anything done here.

Drop me your address and I have a Gigabyte GV-NX66T128D PCIe card for you

http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/VGA/Pr...?ProductID=1204

I could get it in the mail as soon as Thursday.

Doc, I just looked at the specs for that motherboard. Just be warned it needs a 24pin power connector, so your going to need either the 20-24p adapter and a pciE adapter, or bite the bullet and get at least a 400w supply to go with it. You could always get the 2nd simm of ram later, but you need to cover the power needs.

If anyone one else doesn't find much if anything wrong with this combo deal, I'm going to order one for my daughter since she is only on an old P3. Seems like a decent upgrade for her.

Doc,

I left this one off accidentally. It's the cheaper one.

https://secure.newegg.com/NewVersion/Wishli...hListTitle=Doc2

I didn't include PS's, but you could get one starting at $35 like I liked earlier. As long as the memory in this verifies, it's $41 for 2GB Kingston. That's a heck of deal.

It has one IDE slot for 2 devices, plus built in NIC.

It's $211, but doesn't include PS.

As long as the Mobo you get supports the Duo 2 Core as well as Pentium D, the upgradability should be good. I believe LGA 775 is the key. Also, if you find something, check the northbridge and southbridge plus the memory speed. Some boards support 667 and some support 800 DDR. I believe the micro I posted supports 667.

jUst as an FYI, the specs machine that Lexx posted was a Pentium D, which is a dual core but it's not anywhere near the level of a Core2Duo.

As Atomm said LGA775 is going to be your key.

lexx wrote:http://3btech.net/3ducoinpedmo.html

This is a MSI 2.8 DCPentium, with 1 gig of ram included, $139.oo Add another gig of ram and your at only $178.oo

Looks to have everything you'd need.

I'm not sure I'm wild about this company. Here's a selection of reviews from the past month - some of them dealing with motherboards.

http://www.resellerratings.com/seller3068-p1-s1-d3.html

Gotta love the price, but if there are problems with the order, it starts to become not such a good deal, as shipping things back & forth, and aggrevation takes it's toll.

And thanks Bubba. For obvious reasons, I had difficulties looking into it myself.

I used to order from a company bzboyz.com they were the cheapest I could find at the time. They sent me a DOA MB/CPU that I had paid to have assembled and tested. I stopped using them and have use Newegg ever since. Newegg is wonderful.


I would strongly suggest that if your PS doesn't have a 24pin or a PCI-E extension, if you are running a mobo that requires 24 pin or a PCI-E power then you should upgrade your PS. Not upgrading your PS just means you are overworking it. Don't for a second think that the PCI-E power isn't a decent extra demand. If you don't need those things then a 20pin PS may be fine, but don't try to fit a square peg in a round hole on this one, it's not worth it.

I know you are working on a budget. I wish I had the normal amount of extra parts I normally have to share. I have a 2nd Gen Imac G3 ;-) it's pretty indigo blue.

Whats the diff between a D and the others? I looked over the ratings and it seemed to be better than a celeron anyways, plus you could chuck the chip next year and replace it with many other types on the list. I was trying to get him close to maybe being able to afford something 🙂

I think one comment there sez it all. Its a discount house selling offbrand items at bargain basement prices. Do your research and know what to buy or not buy. I bought a moto/cpu combo there a year ago, and again bought a sata dvd burner there like 3 months ago. Didn't have any probs.

I'd research the MSI board advertised. See how many left the factory DOA. If its low, then whats the worry? The overall rating was 7.7'ish. Not too bad for a bargain house.

Oh, my gigabyte from newegg was broke when I got it, so its not just the cheap mailorder outlets

Bubbaspanky wrote:I used to order from a company bzboyz.com they were the cheapest I could find at the time. They sent me a DOA MB/CPU that I had paid to have assembled and tested. I stopped using them and have use Newegg ever since. Newegg is wonderful.


I would strongly suggest that if your PS doesn't have a 24pin or a PCI-E extension, if you are running a mobo that requires 24 pin or a PCI-E power then you should upgrade your PS. Not upgrading your PS just means you are overworking it. Don't for a second think that the PCI-E power isn't a decent extra demand. If you don't need those things then a 20pin PS may be fine, but don't try to fit a square peg in a round hole on this one, it's not worth it.

I know you are working on a budget. I wish I had the normal amount of extra parts I normally have to share. I have a 2nd Gen Imac G3 ;-) it's pretty indigo blue.

I guess I'm just too long-winded for everyone to read everything I post. Others missed this too.

The power supply is 350 watts, has a 20-pin motherboard connector and no connector that is designed especially for any gfx cards. It's an Antec Smartblue, so it probably delivers close to 350 watts, unlike some off-brand PS's that may SAY 550 watts, but don't deliver close to that in real-world usage. Still, it's old, and just because it's not the ONLY problem my computer has, that doesn't mean it's not also fried. So, to sum up, it's old, low-powered, wasn't designed to plug into a gfx card, won't directly plug into the new motherboard without an adaptor, and was involved in the power surge that destroyed an unknown number of components. It really sounds like it's time to replace it, doesn't it?

Thanks again for the offer, Bubba. SO FAR, Atomm's second link looks to be in the lead, although I'll have to get an IDE card to run all my IDE devices, and if we add in the PS, we're getting very close to $300.

One question though: The processor in Atomm's second link - is it as good as my P4 3ghz, or better? I'm obviously not shooting for top quality here, but as long as I HAVE to buy new parts, I'd like to match or better my fried computer's performance, and allow for possible upgradability in the future.

Sarge wrote:Drop me your address and I have a Gigabyte GV-NX66T128D PCIe card for you

http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/VGA/Pr...?ProductID=1204

I could get it in the mail as soon as Thursday.

Thanks Sarge, but Paladin has offered up one of his old SLI cards (Lexx is using the other one). The offer, as always, is greatly appreciated.

Doc I had a P4 2.8 and upgraded to the C2D 1.86 and there was a HUGE increase. BUT I did the 4Mb cache model that runs at 1033 Mhz... but I would expect a large increase. Even just in the fact you are using better ram and a better interface for the vid card.

Not sure fi you returned the PS you bought or not but Newegg has this special this week, I am running this guy it's a nice ps

Antec True Power Trio TP3-550 550W Power Supply with Three 12V Rails - Retail

* ATX12V
* 100 - 240 V
* UL, CUL, FCC, TÜV, CE, C-tick, ...

Rating + 4Rating + 4Rating + 4Rating + 4Rating + 4 [137]

$89.99
You Save: $10.00
($49.99 after $40.00 Mail-In Rebate pdf )
--------------------------------------------

This is the ram I am running and it's nice, I am now running 4Gb of it now

CORSAIR XMS2 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM Desktop Memory - Retail

* DDR2 800 (PC2 6400)
* Timing 4-4-4-12
* Cas Latency 4

Rating + 4Rating + 4Rating + 4Rating + 4Rating + 4 [1310]

$69.00
You Save: $10.00
($29.00 after $40.00 Mail-In Rebate pdf )
Free 3 Business Day Shipping

both are from newegg.com

I will try to piece a whole system for you tonight, but time is tight I can't promise.

Bubbaspanky wrote:Doc I had a P4 2.8 and upgraded to the C2D 1.86 and there was a HUGE increase. BUT I did the 4Mb cache model that runs at 1033 Mhz... but I would expect a large increase. Even just in the fact you are using better ram and a better interface for the vid card.

Not sure fi you returned the PS you bought or not but Newegg has this special this week, I am running this guy it's a nice ps

Antec True Power Trio TP3-550 550W Power Supply with Three 12V Rails - Retail

* ATX12V
* 100 - 240 V
* UL, CUL, FCC, TÜV, CE, C-tick, ...

Rating + 4Rating + 4Rating + 4Rating + 4Rating + 4 [137]

$89.99
You Save: $10.00
($49.99 after $40.00 Mail-In Rebate pdf )
--------------------------------------------

This is the ram I am running and it's nice, I am now running 4Gb of it now

CORSAIR XMS2 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM Desktop Memory - Retail

* DDR2 800 (PC2 6400)
* Timing 4-4-4-12
* Cas Latency 4

Rating + 4Rating + 4Rating + 4Rating + 4Rating + 4 [1310]

$69.00
You Save: $10.00
($29.00 after $40.00 Mail-In Rebate pdf )
Free 3 Business Day Shipping

both are from newegg.com

I will try to piece a whole system for you tonight, but time is tight I can't promise.

I think so far, I'm going with Atomm's setup, with 2 gigs ram included. Now I need a PS for it, and I need to check to see if another $10 - $20 will get me significantly more CPU. At some point, there has to be a limit on what is spent, but you've gotta check the margins to see if a little bit more money buys a lot more performance. I need to keep it under $300 shipped, though

I'm sorely tempted by Lexx's suggestion, but I've had enough bad buying experiences to last me a lifetime. Who hasn't? I hate to risk another.

BTW, here's the rating for BZboys.com: 5.28 / 10 (last 6 months)
http://www.resellerratings.com/store/PartsPC_9

Here's 3btech.com: 6.11 / 10 (last 6 months)
http://www.resellerratings.com/seller3068-p1-s1-d3.html

Here's Newegg.com: 9.86 / 10 (last 6 months)
http://www.resellerratings.com/store/Newegg

There comes a point of diminishing returns when you try to get too good a deal, and it often costs you more.

From here on out, I'm saving my "thank you, your effort is appreciated" up for the end. I don't really want it to start to sound like those ppl who ask you, "How are you?" as a greeting, and never really want an answer.

the extra L2 cache with the added bus speed is worth the money IMHO.

Just making sure you noticed with rebates the ram I posted was $29 and the ps was $49

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/

That should help you get a better picture on how a CPU performs instead of what Speed it's listed as. Wish I had found that before now.

Trust me, the speed is very decieving. Remember when I upgraded how I started being the first person to load into a map?

If you are seriously considering what I posted, let me do some research and make sure the memory will work. With the new LGA775 chipset, it depends on several factors and can be a bit more picky than before.

If you want slightly more processor, go for the E6X00 Line aka Conroe. Keep in mind, you have to watch the bus speeds on the CPU and mobo to match the memory. I opted for the straight 800 setup. 800 FSB Mobo, CPU and Memory. It's a 1x ratio instead of having to clock one part and not another. An example is 667 Memory is 2x when used with a 1033 FSB mobo.

Under $300 huh? Ok. Let's see what we can do.

Atomm wrote:http://www.cpubenchmark.net/

That should help you get a better picture on how a CPU performs instead of what Speed it's listed as. Wish I had found that before now.

Trust me, the speed is very decieving. Remember when I upgraded how I started being the first person to load into a map?

If you are seriously considering what I posted, let me do some research and make sure the memory will work. With the new LGA775 chipset, it depends on several factors and can be a bit more picky than before.

If you want slightly more processor, go for the E6X00 Line aka Conroe. Keep in mind, you have to watch the bus speeds on the CPU and mobo to match the memory. I opted for the straight 800 setup. 800 FSB Mobo, CPU and Memory. It's a 1x ratio instead of having to clock one part and not another. An example is 667 Memory is 2x when used with a 1033 FSB mobo.

Under $300 huh? Ok. Let's see what we can do.

Well, I WAS considering your motherboard. . .but I just realized I'll have all expansion slots full from the get-go. First, one slot for the sound card. Second, I'll need an IDE card because I'll have four IDE devices, assuming they aren't fried. Maybe if it had support for four IDE drives built right in, then at least there would be one free slot. Heck, with this budget, I suppose I can't be too picky.

Crap. This sucks, not being able to do a lot of this stuff myself. I'm used to researching the hell out of any major computer purchase. . .

Bubbaspanky wrote:the extra L2 cache with the added bus speed is worth the money IMHO.

Just making sure you noticed with rebates the ram I posted was $29 and the ps was $49

I did catch that Bubba, but I need $300 SHIPPED, unfortunately. I need to work with what I have on hand.

I hate rebates anyway. More often than I cared for, I didn't get the rebates I sent off for, so I stopped buying things based on rebate price a few years back.

DocJon wrote:I did catch that Bubba, but I need $300 SHIPPED, unfortunately. I need to work with what I have on hand.

I hate rebates anyway. More often than I cared for, I didn't get the rebates I sent off for, so I stopped buying things based on rebate price a few years back.

No worries.... just making sure, and man do I understand the rebates thing.

Hey Doc, throwing this out there cause I know I couldn't rely on others to do all my research... is there a library nearby where you can use one of their machines for a few hours?

FYI (I do have the following and you are welcome to them if you need em)

80Gb IDE HDD ( I use it as a drive for repairing others machines so I will gladly give it to you if yours is dead)

Older DVD burner, it's on the frits but it should work for reading just fine

512Mb (2 sticks of 256) DDR2 Ram (it's not much but it'll get you on your feet.)

Of course Sarge has the PCI-E card which I could throw in the package.

I also have a dell (normal ATX wiring) PS it's a 350 Watt, it sux, but it's your if you want it.

Bubbaspanky wrote:Hey Doc, throwing this out there cause I know I couldn't rely on others to do all my research... is there a library nearby where you can use one of their machines for a few hours?

FYI (I do have the following and you are welcome to them if you need em)

80Gb IDE HDD ( I use it as a drive for repairing others machines so I will gladly give it to you if yours is dead)

Older DVD burner, it's on the frits but it should work for reading just fine

512Mb (2 sticks of 256) DDR2 Ram (it's not much but it'll get you on your feet.)

Of course Sarge has the PCI-E card which I could throw in the package.

I also have a dell (normal ATX wiring) PS it's a 350 Watt, it sux, but it's your if you want it.

Nah, unless the strike fried my HD's and DVD's, I should be good. They will be the only remaining pre-meltdown equipment.

Yeah, it's freakin' me out not being able to run 50 million Google searches. I'm gonna hit the library tomorrow, but on a strange machine, it'll still be off-putting. I messed around with this machine and got it to act a bit better, but it's still pretty poor.

Doc,

I put together a tighter list. It's the same mobo, but the Memory comes straight from Gigabytes approved memory list for this board. It's still only $55 for 2GB. I also added a 450 power supply. The CPU is the lowest Duo 2 Core, but I still feel bang for buck, it's a great chip. The total price comes in at $277.

A few things to keep in mind:
- This is a MicroATX and things will be tight.
- The memory must be 1.8v only
- The memory is 667. In this case, I think you'll be ok.
- I do not believe this mobo supports 4MB cache at this time. A bios update could change this. Based on this, if you want to up the CPU, I recommend the E6300. It is the chip right below mine and still a great chip. This raises the cost to $313.

As soon as the link shows up in my email, I'll post it here.

or here

http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?...N82E16813128016

http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?...N82E16817121024

http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?...N82E16820134125

CPU 1 - http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?...N82E16819115031

CPU 2 - http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?...N82E16819115005

Just read your mobo comments.

http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx...N82E16813128084

Use that, drop CPU 2 and your still under $300.

Atomm wrote:Doc,

I put together a tighter list. It's the same mobo, but the Memory comes straight from Gigabytes approved memory list for this board. It's still only $55 for 2GB. I also added a 450 power supply. The CPU is the lowest Duo 2 Core, but I still feel bang for buck, it's a great chip. The total price comes in at $277.

A few things to keep in mind:
- This is a MicroATX and things will be tight.
- The memory must be 1.8v only
- The memory is 667. In this case, I think you'll be ok.
- I do not believe this mobo supports 4MB cache at this time. A bios update could change this. Based on this, if you want to up the CPU, I recommend the E6300. It is the chip right below mine and still a great chip. This raises the cost to $313.

As soon as the link shows up in my email, I'll post it here.

or here

http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?...N82E16813128016

http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?...N82E16817121024

http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?...N82E16820134125

CPU 1 - http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?...N82E16819115031

CPU 2 - http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?...N82E16819115005

Just read your mobo comments.

http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx...N82E16813128084

Use that, drop CPU 2 and your still under $300.

I'll give this stuff the once-over at the library tomorrow. I just decided that a micro will be OK, assuming the soundcard and IDE controller card (if necessary) fit in all at once. For my budget, SOMETHING has gotta give. Might as well be those extra slots I never seem to use. Later on, if I need the PCI slot for something else, I'll pull 2 of the IDE's and make them external USB drives, freeing up the PCI slot with the IDE controller.

I'm not gonna run into some weird problem using a micro board in a mid-tower, will I?

Looks like a good rig.

Doc, I'm not sure how the pin's are going to line up. I'll look into it.

Bubba, any thoughts?

It's still ATX form factor so it should fit. You may have to remove a pin or two, but it technically should fit.

If not screw it to a board, screw the board to the wall.
😀

Ah, the good ole 2x4 Redneck Case Mod.....

Google let me down... Couldn't find a good picture.....

OK, I'm at Hooterville Public Library. I managed to log in here, but can't get into my gmail (sigh)

Also, for some reason the screen has a grid of dots across it. . .still, I have a good connection and a modern computer, so let's see what I can find out.

OK. I have it down to the first two processors on this page:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList....amp;Order=PRICE

I'd really like to get the e4600 Allendale 2.4, but at $139.99, it might put me over budget, especially since I want to get that Gigabyte G-p35-s3g full-sized motherboard Atomm posted. Also, that board will, again, only take 2 IDE devices, so add another $15 for the IDE controller again.

Here's the full-sized Motherboard (Gigabyte)
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx...N82E16813128084

Here's the Manufacturer's site for the motherboard:
http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/Mother...Name=GA-P35-S3G

Anyone think this memory will/won't work with the above motherboard?
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx...N82E16820134488

The above memory isn't listed specifically for that motherboard, but I know often times memory will work that isn't specifically listed.

What do you think of this PS? It's a 430 watt Thermaltake.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16817153023

It has lots of 4-pin molex, a PCI-E connectoer, 24-pin motherboard connnector. I don't know if I'd trust a no-name 500 watt over a Thermaltake. Often times the efficiency of the PS goes down with ambient temperature, especially with a off-brand PS. Any thoughts, opinions?

I wish you guys would loaf a bit and check out my post above. . . 🙂

Don't pick today to be busy at work! 😱

Often times non specified memory will work as long as it is in the power specs. I will say in my experience Kingston Rams seem to work more universally than Corsair or other more "premium rams"

I had the Thermaltake 430, maybe an older version... I liked it though it got loud, then it out and out quit. It was about 2 years old though.

Not sure you'd be able to see the difference in the 2.2 vs 2.4Ghz proc all other things being equal. Never hurts to have it though.

I will look more in depth tonight

On the page for the memory on Newegg, one reviewer said (after talking to Kingston) that the memory is the equivalent of the KVR800D2N5K2 which is listed on the Kingston website as being compatible with the Gigabyte motherboard. So assuming that we can trust that this person actually did talk to Kingston, it should work. I would defer to the opinion of someone more knowledgeable than myself on this however....

Kingston Memory Confugurator

OK guys, thanks as always. I'm gonna call it a day here at the library and stew on this overnight, and give you all a chance to reply further if you want/can.

The only thing I have left that I don't have an idea on is the PCI card to let me run an add'l 2 IDE devices. I've been reading the reviews on Newegg and I'm just tempted to buy the cheap $12 card, since I can't find a compelling reason not too.

Talk to you all later when I get home.

Whoa whoa whoa! NewEgg charges TAX in Tennessee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It doesn't charge it if I send it to PA.

Crap! They have a warehouse in Memphis. . . does the fun ever end?

That sux... I wouldn't spend any extra money on an IDE card, in my experience they are all the saem. RAID card=slightly different story

Sarge wrote:On the page for the memory on Newegg, one reviewer said (after talking to Kingston) that the memory is the equivalent of the KVR800D2N5K2 which is listed on the Kingston website as being compatible with the Gigabyte motherboard. So assuming that we can trust that this person actually did talk to Kingston, it should work. I would defer to the opinion of someone more knowledgeable than myself on this however....

Kingston Memory Confugurator

I saw that Sarge, but the code he gave did not match up exactly with the codes listed on Gigabyte's website. The number listed for that motherboard, for DDR2 800, is KVR800D2N5/1G. . .the last couple letters being the difference.

Maybe the last few numbers/letters aren't important? I just saw they weren't identical and said, "aww, sugar..." (I was in the library 🙂 )

This is why I usually take my time when I'm looking to upgrade. . .lots of i's to dot and t's to cross, and until you check everything out, you never know what's important and what's not.


ETA:
Sarge, I clicked on the Configurator link, and it lists the memory I listed above exactly as I typed it. I guess it's good then.

I think the 1G = 1 Gigabyte and the 2G=2 Gigabyte. It'd be nice if they ever came out with a standard naming convention that allows you to tell what you've got from the product number.

Doc, I think you are on the right track. In the grand scheme of things, I think Bubba's right though. 2.2 or 2.4, you won't notice the difference.

I tell you why I picked that power supply. I based it on price, rating and several comments that said it was quiet. I have heard of Kingwin, although I can't say if they are a big brand or not. The other reason I picked them was the power supply had dual 12 volt rails. I have no idea what that means, but all the gamers from OKGG look for it when they buy power supplies. :-)

It does have 4 less power connections for IDE. I think it's a toss up either way.

I'm sorry about the taxes. That sucks.

Atomm wrote:Doc, I think you are on the right track. In the grand scheme of things, I think Bubba's right though. 2.2 or 2.4, you won't notice the difference.

I tell you why I picked that power supply. I based it on price, rating and several comments that said it was quiet. I have heard of Kingwin, although I can't say if they are a big brand or not. The other reason I picked them was the power supply had dual 12 volt rails. I have no idea what that means, but all the gamers from OKGG look for it when they buy power supplies. :-)

It does have 4 less power connections for IDE. I think it's a toss up either way.

I'm sorry about the taxes. That sucks.

I'll see if I can take another look at it tomorrow. I got over-confident after my day of surfing, and thought I'd try to do something here at home: I tried to find that PS you are speaking of while I watched a repeat of the 90-minute pilot of "Burn Notice" (starring Bruce Campbell). I sat & surfed while I watched the show. When the show ended and I still hadn't got anywhere, I gave up.

Did I mention this machine sucks? 🙂 I keep using the same emoticon, because that's the only one I can remember to type.

The Thermaltake only has an efficiency rating of 65%. I better look some more.

Doc, I think you are on the right track. . .
I think it's a toss up either way.

There you go again 😀

Doh!

What effeciency would you look for? The one I posted was 70%.

Not sure you will find muc more in effieciency beside maybe the Antec earthwatts. I will admit I love Antec, they are the best going, but they are more expensive.

As for rails... think of it as seperate circuits in your house. You wouldn't want to run a vaccum, dryer and stove on one circuit at the same time. So your dryer and your stove each have their own circuits or "rails" and same with vid cards in a computer.

It's a good idea... you should always make an effort to divide electricity across as many circuits as possible, so you don't overheat wires and components.

What I'm ordering. . .

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16817121024

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16820134488

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16819115031

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16822998008

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16813128084


Covering my bases. Getting one of the IDE to PATA adaptors above, and this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16815124001

instead of 2 of the IDE to PATA adaptors. Only REALLY need one of the DVD drives to work, but I REALLY want it to work, so this way I have two options, and it costs about the same. Both these items are a bit hairy according to reviews. . .

Good luck with it all!

The IDE card will be fine... The adapters can get rather hairy. But who knows maybe you'll be lucky. It's odd it seems you need to power the adapter and then the drive as well. that will eat up molex powers quickly.


Rest looks good though... good work!

Bubbaspanky wrote:The IDE card will be fine... The adapters can get rather hairy. But who knows maybe you'll be lucky. It's odd it seems you need to power the adapter and then the drive as well. that will eat up molex powers quickly.

Well, I doubt powering the adaptor and powering the drive are quite the same. . .the adaptor probably uses much less power than a HD, so If necessary, I'll split it off something else that doesn't take much power, or isn't used much. I have splitters. It might not be necessary though - Four drives, five molex connectors.

Hopefully this will be OK. It cost more than I wanted - the unexpected tax hurt - but there wasn't much I could cut without severely limiting the machine, and to save a little to get much less didn't make sense. Pretty much the difference between building a stunted, already out-of-date machine, and a machine that will work very well for the next year+ (and longer with upgrades) was $100. $300 before taxes/shipping is pretty good, considering I paid $400 for just the CPU/motherboard of the old/fried machine FIVE YEARS AGO.

You guys have been a TREMENDOUS help with this. I think this ended up with Atomm's PS, motherboard, CPU, and RAM. It's pretty much Atomm's machine, so if something goes wrong, I'll blame him 😉

I owe you guys one.

I accept paypal... ;-) JK

If it helps your conscience, I paid about $600 for very similar parts last may.

Looks like you got all the stuff you need!
I have an E4500 in another pc and you can easily OC it (just raise fsb) and get it to 3.0ghz on the stock cooler without touching anything else! Makes for a nice free upgrade!

The only weakness in your list might be the PS. Just a friendly heads-up for future problems!

Hope to see ya out there soon...I'm getting tired of killing the same ole guys every week!!!

Heh, that's a mirror of my and Bubba's system. I hope it works out well. Just keep in mind, there can always be problems with new equipment. If you run into any, switch it out and go from there. Once you have things running stable after that initial push, you should be set.

Now, you are reloading your OS with this, right?

Atomm wrote:Heh, that's a mirror of my and Bubba's system. I hope it works out well. Just keep in mind, there can always be problems with new equipment. If you run into any, switch it out and go from there. Once you have things running stable after that initial push, you should be set.

Now, you are reloading your OS with this, right?

Oh yeah. I'm a big believer in starting with a clean slate. Paladin has a XP install going back. . .oh, I guess 5 or 6 years, something I've never been able/willing to pull off. I don't think I've gone more than 18 months before something makes me want to format-reinstall. Hey, anyone use any good utilities to assure a clean uninstall of software (beyond XP's built-in add-remove software)? Maybe tidier housekeeping would help extend the time between reinstalls.

Does UPS work on Saturdays now? Newegg's already shipped, and it's gone to another California City. It's 3-day shipping, so I would think I'd have this by Wednesday. (crossing fingers)

Atomm wrote:http://www.cpubenchmark.net/

Nice link Atomm 🙂 I see by comparing on that list that my AMD is still respectable in most cases. I'm going to order that other cheapass system tho. I just have to see if its worth $140 🙂 It doesn't rate too low below the other setups. Should make a decent multimedia machine. I still have 3 other machines in the house to upgrade, so it never ends around here.

lexx wrote:Nice link Atomm 🙂 I see by comparing on that list that my AMD is still respectable in most cases. I'm going to order that other cheapass system tho. I just have to see if its worth $140 🙂 It doesn't rate too low below the other setups. Should make a decent multimedia machine. I still have 3 other machines in the house to upgrade, so it never ends around here.

Lexx, go to the CPU benchmark section at that link. What do the new Pentium chip you're ordering, and your old AMD chip, rate? I'm curious to get a real-world feel for these numbers.

My fried P3 3 GHZ rated 468 and 194

My new chip (the Dual Core 2.2) scores at 1160 and 75, so I should be seeing a big relative improvement, I would think. Factor in the nifty new gfx card, and games should run very well.

Speaking of games, did they ever release a DEMO for Frontlines? The last beta finally did run on my machine, but it ran like a somewhat speedy slideshow. I'd be curious to try a "finished" demo, and to see how the new machine handles it. From the little I've heard about it, however, it sounds like they really screwed the pooch.

My AMD rates at 1149 and the Pentium D rates at 775. Not as good as the coreduals as everyone says, but, and I mean but, my AMD does .ok. most of the time. I can run UT3 pretty much maxed out @ ws 1440x968 @ 30fps. COD and UT2k4 run without a second thought. BF2 still loads like a pig, so its probably due to the differences from AMD to core2duals. The video seems to make the most important difference. I defo want a 8800 gtx as soon as the prices drop more.

I still have a P4 478pin with rambus ram, which is impossible to afford to upgrade, so I'm going to replace it with the P D system. If I don't have a single problem with it, I'll replace a P3 next with either another D or my AMD and buy your core2dual system for myself. I'm just not in the mood or have the time to reinstall all my software again :)

I ordered it last night, added a case, 550w powersupply, 200Sata HD, 20x DVDsata burner, and a couple of case fans...$284.96. Free shipping, no taxes.

lexx wrote:My AMD rates at 1149 and the Pentium D rates at 775. Not as good as the coreduals as everyone says, but, and I mean but, my AMD does .ok. most of the time. I can run UT3 pretty much maxed out @ ws 1440x968 @ 30fps. COD and UT2k4 run without a second thought. BF2 still loads like a pig, so its probably due to the differences from AMD to core2duals. The video seems to make the most important difference. I defo want a 8800 gtx as soon as the prices drop more.

I still have a P4 478pin with rambus ram, which is impossible to afford to upgrade, so I'm going to replace it with the P D system. If I don't have a single problem with it, I'll replace a P3 next with either another D or my AMD and buy your core2dual system for myself. I'm just not in the mood or have the time to reinstall all my software again 🙂

I ordered it last night, added a case, 550w powersupply, 200Sata HD, 20x DVDsata burner, and a couple of case fans...$284.96. Free shipping, no taxes.

Thanls Lexx. It looks like my new CPU is nearly identical in speed as your AMD, and since we're using the same gfx card, that means I should do very well with games for the next year or so without upgrades.

If your experiences with that company are positive, I'll keep them in mind for the future. I wouldn't mind picking up a SATA DVD burner, a new case, or new HD. Fun stuff for the future. . .

Oh yah Doc, you will still have a much better system. If I have a problem, its no biggie, I have backup computers and some parts. I decided to buy a case and HD so I wouldn't have to disassemble anything else for parts. I didn't even buy the extra gig of ram, just went for the rock bottom price. When its finished, I'll pop in my 7950 card, install UT3 and see how it plays out once a map is loaded and a stable online ping is established.

Might take me a couple of weeks to get around to it though. Its nice, warm, and I've been pulling 10-12hr days. I have to go out now to buy a tool thats going to cost $400 ;p Make it, spend it 🙂

As far as my AMD goes, I think I have a flakey motherboard. Its fine in XP, but in Vista it runs at half speed. I can also upgrade the processor to a faster one, but I think in retrospect I should have went the same route everyone else here has. Time will tell where I'll go next 🙂

Hey guys. . .I'm not up on the FSB and memory speed issue. I don't normally keep up with hardware unless I'm looking to buy, and I wasn't looking to buy when I lost my machine.

I noticed that my memory is DDR2 800:
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx...N82E16820134488

But the motherboard lists DDR2 1066 as the memory standard:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16813128084

This is one of those things that I didn't have time to research properly. When I bought my last system, I made sure to get low-latency DDR 400, so that it would work well with the 800 FSB. To my uneducated eye, the memory listed for the board and the memory I bought seems. . .poorly matched.

Will the memory slow down the system? If it does a little bit, it's no big deal-the price was right. I'll buy better memory when I get around to upgrading the processor in a year or so.

It shouldn't matter. Not worth the money to switch it over.

Bubbaspanky wrote:It shouldn't matter. Not worth the money to switch it over.

Gotcha. When I built my last system, I think they were switching from 533 to 800 fsb, and you wanted to get the 400 DDR to make use of the 800fsb. I have no idea what's going on with memory speed now.

Doc, I'm sorry I didn't catch that sooner.

From reading the reviews, you should be ok. Almost everyone mentioned DDR800. It sounds like you should be able to run the memory as 667 with a 2 multiplier or maybe push it up some.

One guy even mentions DDR2-800 or DDR2-1066. You should be ok and even have room to grow.

Atomm wrote:Doc, I'm sorry I didn't catch that sooner.

From reading the reviews, you should be ok. Almost everyone mentioned DDR800. It sounds like you should be able to run the memory as 667 with a 2 multiplier or maybe push it up some.

One guy even mentions DDR2-800 or DDR2-1066. You should be ok and even have room to grow.

I can plug it in and it will work, right. . .the messing about is just to maximize speed, right? Or will I have to mess in the BIOS from the get-go?

shouldn't need to play with it.
you'll be ok, stop worrying

Bubbaspanky wrote:shouldn't need to play with it.
you'll be ok, stop worrying

We fear what we don't know, and what we don't understand. . .besides, if it seems like I post to this thread a bit much, bear in mind that there's not much else on the internet I have much luck with, using this old IE5 and the POS computer. One upside has been the inability to keep up with how the Pirates are doing 🙂

I'm just giving you crap I am the same way.

DocJon wrote:We fear what we don't know, and what we don't understand. . .besides, if it seems like I post to this thread a bit much, bear in mind that there's not much else on the internet I have much luck with, using this old IE5 and the POS computer. One upside has been the inability to keep up with how the Pirates are doing 🙂

When you get that new pc built....goto Tom's Hardware online!
They always have good articles and forums to look up all kinds of PC related stuff!!
Search for your MB and memory and they'll most likely have some tips for tweaking the BIOS!!

BTW - You're using Artic 5 thermal paste on the processor right?!

BTWW - My XP was installed about 7 years ago, I would be lost if I reinstalled every couple of months!!

Judge_Mental wrote:When you get that new pc built....goto Tom's Hardware online!
They always have good articles and forums to look up all kinds of PC related stuff!!
Search for your MB and memory and they'll most likely have some tips for tweaking the BIOS!!

BTW - You're using Artic 5 thermal paste on the processor right?!

BTWW - My XP was installed about 7 years ago, I would be lost if I reinstalled every couple of months!!

Nice record on the XP install! I try out too many programs, and sometimes will try a half-dozen of a particular type before I settle on one I like. . .I had a HELL of a time finding a video player, for example. Some didn't have the features I liked, some were bloated and resource-intensive, some had features that flat-out didn't work. Eventually, BSplayer released a version that wasn't buggy. After a year or so of that sort of thing, it's time to clean the slate.

Nah, not using Arctic Silver 5. I HAD a syringe of Arctic Silver 3, but I used the last of it during my last CPU install. Anyway, I read in a back issue of Maximum PC where they did a comparison between different thermal pastes. Turns out that there's like 1-2 degree celsius difference between cheap Radio Shack paste, Arctic Silver 5, thermal pads, and a few other exotic pastes. I'll probably be using a thermal pad, assuming my CPU comes with one. If not, a quick trip to Radio Shack will be in order.

Nah, not using Arctic Silver 5. I HAD a syringe of Arctic Silver 3, but I used the last of it during my last CPU install. Anyway, I read in a back issue of Maximum PC where they did a comparison between different thermal pastes. Turns out that there's like 1-2 degree celsius difference between cheap Radio Shack paste, Arctic Silver 5, thermal pads, and a few other exotic pastes. I'll probably be using a thermal pad, assuming my CPU comes with one. If not, a quick trip to Radio Shack will be in order.

That might be true about the 1-2 degree difference, but with the better pastes, you get a longer life out of the paste. That breaks down to thermal consistancy over many years...important if your OCing the little bastard too.
If you like to change mb's and/or processors every few years then it probably won't matter. I like to over-build a pc, OC it and use it for 5,6,7 years.
I've personally seen other guys processors overheat, we goto put on a different cooler and noticed that the OEM paste pretty much turned to dust. (not sure about the thermal pads)

Judge_Mental wrote:That might be true about the 1-2 degree difference, but with the better pastes, you get a longer life out of the paste. That breaks down to thermal consistancy over many years...important if your OCing the little bastard too.
If you like to change mb's and/or processors every few years then it probably won't matter. I like to over-build a pc, OC it and use it for 5,6,7 years.
I've personally seen other guys processors overheat, we goto put on a different cooler and noticed that the OEM paste pretty much turned to dust. (not sure about the thermal pads)

I can't find the article I'm talking about, but I did find a follow-up. . .and promptly lost it again! But the upshot is this: the better pastes do seem to reduce the temp at IDLE by a fair amount, like 8 or 9 degrees, but at full load, the temps only very by ~2-4 degrees. I'll try to find the article again later.

Another blurb in answer to reader mail: " Because our tests have shown very little difference between the default thermal pads and premium thermal greases, such as Arctic Silver, there's no real reason to scrape off a cooler's included thermal pad." - Gordon Mah Ung

All things being equal, I'd prefer to use Arctic Silver, but I ran out and I forgot to order some. . .since it doesn't seem to be a big deal though, I'll use the included thermal pads if I can, or the thermal grease I can get locally at Radio Shack.

I have never trusted the pads, they seem to get hard and useless quickly. I have been amazed pulling a heatsink off a proc 5 years later and the paste is still paste. But this is truly an opinion I don't know anything about this enough to base on any real facts.

http://www.heatsink-guide.com/compound.htm

Bubbaspanky wrote:I have never trusted the pads, they seem to get hard and useless quickly. I have been amazed pulling a heatsink off a proc 5 years later and the paste is still paste. But this is truly an opinion I don't know anything about this enough to base on any real facts.

http://www.heatsink-guide.com/compound.htm

I only know what I read in Maximum PC, but they're usually pretty reliable. I'll use the thermal pad for awhile, and order up some Arctic Silver the next time I order something else. Should be OK for a year or so, I would think. I'm not gonna overclock it anyway, not until I'm desperate to squeeze a bit more power out of it down the line, at least.

I had some issues with the Arctic Silver 3 and my P4 machine. When I went to remove the heatsink, the paste would pull the CPU up with it, even though the chip was locked into the socket. I bent a bunch of pins, and BROKE ONE on my old P4 2.6 CPU - it took some fancy soldering to fix that. Luckily, it was an outside pin.

I didn't remove the heatsink often - like once a year-18 months for cleaning - but about a year after I'd soldered the pin, I forgot about it and went to clean the heatsink again. The same pin came off, I couldn't solder it back on again, and that's when I had to get the P4 3ghz chip to replace it.

You'll be happy to know there are no more pins on the socket 775 chips!!

I think Fry's sells Artic Silver 5...

Judge_Mental wrote:You'll be happy to know there are no more pins on the socket 775 chips!!

I think Fry's sells Artic Silver 5...

Though have read that reseating the chip more than once or twice can cause trouble to the nodes.

Doc, let me get this straight?

You've soldered a pin on CPU and ran said CPU after doing so?

::we're not worthy::

WoW! That's impressive.....

That is impressive... did you at least heatsink the pin somehow?? I would imagine you can melt the die rather quickly.

Bubbaspanky wrote:That is impressive... did you at least heatsink the pin somehow?? I would imagine you can melt the die rather quickly.

I have a small clip-on heatsink I THINK I used. I know I at least wanted to use it, but now I don't remember if it fit.

I guess I'll have to get a can of air to clean the fan/heatsink. I've been using a very small attachment to the vacuum hose designed for cleaning electronics, but although it's powerful, I think I need the air to suppliment it. It doesn't get the results I want by itself.

Atomm wrote:Doc, let me get this straight?

You've soldered a pin on CPU and ran said CPU after doing so?

::we're not worthy::

WoW! That's impressive.....

🙂

It wasn't the original pin. I tinned a few strands of wire, soldered that on, trimmed it and bent it into line with the rest of the pins. The original pin was too small to handle. Soldering THAT back on would've been impressive!

DocJon wrote:🙂

It wasn't the original pin. I tinned a few strands of wire, soldered that on, trimmed it and bent it into line with the rest of the pins. The original pin was too small to handle. Soldering THAT back on would've been impressive!

Even that is impressive. Wonder if maybe you were very lucky and it was a pin that didn't do anything, because on some of them the resistance is measured as input. I think some or most of the powers run along the outside.

Docjon ----> solder ninja 🥷

Bubbaspanky wrote:Even that is impressive. Wonder if maybe you were very lucky and it was a pin that didn't do anything, because on some of them the resistance is measured as input. I think some or most of the powers run along the outside.

Docjon ----> solder ninja 🥷

I'd rather be good than lucky, but I'll take lucky. . .

Hell, I'm even more impressed that you made the pin yourself......

You've earned a new title.... 😈

Atomm wrote:Hell, I'm even more impressed that you made the pin yourself......

You've earned a new title.... 😈

😀

WOW...I looked up the name in webster's and this is what I found:

Solder Ninja - The rank of a mercenary master guru whose accomplishments rivel that of the gods of P and C. Mythical Free Quarks bow at the masters feet and may trim a toe nail or two while down there. Solder Ninjas can disguise themselves as a hardware device and may strike at any time! They've been known to rewire an entire motherboard...while it's running! So if you have a problem, if no one else can help and if you can find them...maybe you can hire a SOLDER NINJA!

🤣

Judge_Mental wrote:WOW...I looked up the name in webster's and this is what I found:

Solder Ninja - The rank of a mercenary master guru whose accomplishments rivel that of the gods of P and C. Mythical Free Quarks bow at the masters feet and may trim a toe nail or two while down there. Solder Ninjas can disguise themselves as a hardware device and may strike at any time! They've been known to rewire an entire motherboard...while it's running! So if you have a problem, if no one else can help and if you can find them...maybe you can hire a SOLDER NINJA!

🙂

You really need to do 2 things:

1. Wash your damn face when you get your SIG picture taken.
2. Post way more often.

🥷

Ack! My order is sitting in South Carolina, presumably awaiting it's
trip to Nashville, and then Clarksville. I'm going NUTS waiting for
it! The waiting - IT FREEZES!! IT BURNS!!! Cruel, UPS is!

Almost a haiku

It's almost like Christmas.....

Those trackers aren't always accurate. I remember tracking a package not too long ago and calling my wife to say that it was somewhere and would likely be delivered tomorrow. Her reply was that it was sitting on the table waiting for me 😀

Bubbaspanky wrote:Almost a haiku

Now see, that's an example of why I'm not all that bright. If I were, I would've thought of that myself. It would've turned a whiny post with a "Lord of the Rings" reference into a genuine chuckle-getter. A little creativity with my whine.

Sarge, it's probably off, but I'm still expecting it to show up late afternoon tomorrow at best. It was really annoying watching it sit at the Dallas/Fort Worth airport Saturday and Sunday!

Sarge wrote:It's almost like Christmas.....

Those trackers aren't always accurate. I remember tracking a package not too long ago and calling my wife to say that it was somewhere and would likely be delivered tomorrow. Her reply was that it was sitting on the table waiting for me 😀

In fact Sarge just told me that your computer was just delivered to his house.

😄

How could that be when I picked it up at the DFW airport just yesterday..... 😈

I'd write a nasty letter to Newegg. Tell them if they have the nerve to charge you tax for a warehouse in Tennesse, the least they could do is ship it from said warehouse..... 😛

Atomm wrote:How could that be when I picked it up at the DFW airport just yesterday..... 😈

I'd write a nasty letter to Newegg. Tell them if they have the nerve to charge you tax for a warehouse in Tennesse, the least they could do is ship it from said warehouse..... 😛

You TOTALLY derailed my next whiney post. . .at least I don't have to try to remember haiku format now.

Dude, they shipped from CA, it had a layover at Dallas/Ft Worth, and now it's in South Carolina! They shipped from the West Coast to the East coast, probably flying over my house in the process, and now they have to ship it west several hundred miles.

WTF are they keeping in their Memphis warehouse? Elvis memorabilia? Old Sun Records recordings? Mummified Rockabilly singers?

BTW, you'll notice I waited until it had shipped OUT of the Dallas area before mentioning it was there 😀

In fact Sarge just told me that your computer was just delivered to his house.

Good, he can assemble it and test it for me. 🙂 I guess I should probably specify a maximum testing time, though. . . 😱

I'll probably get mine before you get yours. I only have to have it shipped across 2 states 🙂

DocJon wrote:You TOTALLY derailed my next whiney post. . .at least I don't have to try to remember haiku format now.

Dude, they shipped from CA, it had a layover at Dallas/Ft Worth, and now it's in South Carolina! They shipped from the West Coast to the East coast, probably flying over my house in the process, and now they have to ship it west several hundred miles.

WTF are they keeping in their Memphis warehouse? Elvis memorabilia? Old Sun Records recordings? Mummified Rockabilly singers?

BTW, you'll notice I waited until it had shipped OUT of the Dallas area before mentioning it was there 😀

NICE!

Actually I drove to Cali 2 days ago, got there and picked it up 3 days ago and have been running it in my house since last Friday!! 😲

BTW - I hope you enjoy the custom quilted Solder Ninja dolls you've been tracking for 10 days!!

The only time I got a shipment from memphis from them was for cabling I think... everything else is from Ca

Cool! My Solder Ninja. . .um, ACTION FIGURES are in Nashville! Delivery should be tomorrow, as anticipated.

I will finally be back to normal. . .well, what passes for normal with me.

Hey, this is pretty random, but since when did that ever stop me? Anyone know of any good FLV batch converters? I have over a hundred videos I've DL'ed from Youtube, and I want to convert them to DIVX to watch them on a stand-alone DVD/DIVX player. I've used Dr DIVX, but it can only do one at a time, or it craps out.

I'd like to be able to watch them without a computer.

Well, the new stuff arrived, and has been assembled into a mostly-working computer (I'm posting from it). I've run into a snag, though, and while I'm still working on it, I'm not having an easy time of it. I've been stuck on this one thing since last night: The PCI card for my extra IDE drives.

This damn thing has very little in the way of documentation. I've reading thru the 100+ reviews on Newegg to see if they have any hints. I can't even find the item, or any info on it, on the manufacturer's website. Here is the PCI board at Newegg:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16815124001

I have THREE Primary and Secondary IDE channels in device manager, and since the motherboard only came with one each, I assume SOMETHING'S working. I have a mystery PCI device in device manager, I don't know what it is, and can't get Windows to find the driver for it. The only other PCI card I have is my old Soundblaster, and it seems to be working fine.

Anyone have any experience with these? I'd like to use it for my DVD drive(s), and leave the HD's on the single IDE controller on the motherboard. What should I set the slave/master/cs setting to on the drives? I've been trying the Master drive, plugged at the end of the cable, but no go.

Anybody?

remember the card replaces the IDE header. So if you intend to use it before windows you need to install it as a bios before your mainboard bios. You then run both bios's. if you plan to use these devices only in windows then you will need to install driver in XP

Manual here
http://it.us.syba.com/bin/silicon_image/si...nual_041103.pdf (see the last section)

Drivers here
http://it.us.syba.com/support_download/dow.../73-0201-1.html

let me know if you have troubles we can work more on thsi.

Bubbaspanky wrote:remember the card replaces the IDE header. So if you intend to use it before windows you need to install it as a bios before your mainboard bios. You then run both bios's. if you plan to use these devices only in windows then you will need to install driver in XP

Manual here
http://it.us.syba.com/bin/silicon_image/si...nual_041103.pdf (see the last section)

Drivers here
http://it.us.syba.com/support_download/dow.../73-0201-1.html

let me know if you have troubles we can work more on thsi.

Thanks Bubba. Would there be a problem getting it to work in Windows first, then messing around later to get it to work without Windows? I'm like to get up and running for now, but if I can, eventually, I'd like my DVD to be available should I have an issue that requires CD/DVD use outside Windows. . .or would it be better/easier just to go for broke now and work to get full functionality right off the bat?

I found a link to a forum for this card. Some info there I'm busy going over.
http://forum.sybausa.com/viewforum.php?f=1...b535064b905328f

Shouldn't be a problem, I don't think

I THINK it's already running "as a BIOS". . .not really sure of that term outside the motherboard arena. Before Windows loads, it comes up with "press F3 to set up RAID" (or something like that), and it shows what drives it's controlling on-screen. Is that what you speak of - it seems to be running outside of Windows to some degree, and I can do some setup before ever loading Windows.

OK, I have a HD running on it now. My games/data drive, not my boot drive. Would there be a speed advantage to leaving the two HD's on the one motherboard IDE channel, or will my games load about the same from the PCI controller as they would from the motherboard controller?

I was going to have the HD's run from the motherboard controller, and have the DVD(s) on the PCI controller. I wanted best speed from the HD's, and I figured my 4x DVD burning/occasional game install would be the area I'd rather sacrifice speed in, if I had to.

I don't think you will see any difference. They are both ATA133 PCI can carry that kind of bus speed no problem, so it shoudn't make a difference.

Bubbaspanky wrote:I don't think you will see any difference. They are both ATA133 PCI can carry that kind of bus speed no problem, so it shoudn't make a difference.

Gotcha. Thanks for the help.

DocJon wrote:Gotcha. Thanks for the help.

Hey it's why you have me on retainer.

Bubbaspanky wrote:Hey it's why you have me on retainer.

He's so efficient, he charges by the word!

Another question. Should the PC light on my cablemodem be blinking on and off constantly, like, a couple times a second? I thought that was a solid light before. The CABLE light is steady, as is the POWER light. I thought it was always the SEND and RECEIVE lights that blinked like that.

Bubba, I have to disagree with you slightly. If the drives are SATA133, but the DVD is something slower like PIO4, wouldn't it slow the hard drive down? That's the rule I've always followed.

Are you plugged straight into the modem? What make/model?

My router is connected to my modem and the Ethernet light blinks on my cable modem, but I don't have a seperate Send and Receive on the modem, just the Router.

If you are plugged in direct to the cable modem, one trick you can try is to change the speed of the NIC to 100/Full and see if it changes, then try 10/Full and check again. And always swap the cable before doing any network troubleshooting. It's the weak link.

BTW, I know your still breaking it in, but how's the performance so far? Does it feel faster?

Atomm wrote:Bubba, I have to disagree with you slightly. If the drives are SATA133, but the DVD is something slower like PIO4, wouldn't it slow the hard drive down? That's the rule I've always followed.

Yes you are correct. I was thinking about whether the card would be a bottle neck vs onboard ata...

Bubbaspanky wrote:Yes you are correct. I was thinking about whether the card would be a bottle neck vs onboard ata...

Yeah, that was my concern. No big deal, I just really wanted my GAME drive to be fast, and that's the one all by itself on the PCI IDE controller. In time, I'll buy a SATA DVD drive, eliminating the need for the PCI IDE card AND solving the problem of the IDE DVD drive slowing whatever HD is sharing it's channel. Eventually, I'll get a fast SATA to become my boot drive, and relegate an older drive to an external USB box.

What do I think of my new system? Well, it's EARLY, obviously, but it seems very fast. For example, windows on the desktop open SNAPPIER. Instantaneous. Everything seems to be obviously faster.

I installed COD4 today and took it for a spin tonight. It was really a slap-dash thing - no tweaking or reading help files to determine what settings were most important, etc - but it ran pretty damn fast with almost everything jacked up high. I got a bit of dizziness, I think it's because it was TOO fast. I'll have to look into capping the FPS, and read up on tweaking it.

I'm gonna try BF2 in the next day or 2. 🙂 As old as that game is, I still had some settings fairly low, because FPS was king, and I needed playability. With this rig, I should be able to max everything if I want. After that, I'll see what 2142 is like when it's not a slideshow!

I've noticed a couple flakey things. . I tried to copy a shortcut from the Windows menu to my Quick Launch, and it got stuck on the desktop, sort of blended into it, and windows belonging to other tasks started minimizing and/or closing. I rebooted. I don't know what the hell that was. . .I'll just have to look for any weirdness in the future, and see what I see.

The blinking light on the modem? Probably normal. I haven't seen normal in about a month, and since it's a new system, I was on alert, looking for weirdness. . .and yeah, I'm plugged straight into the modem.

DocJon wrote:Yeah, that was my concern. No big deal, I just really wanted my GAME drive to be fast, and that's the one all by itself on the PCI IDE controller. In time, I'll buy a SATA DVD drive, eliminating the need for the PCI IDE card AND solving the problem of the IDE DVD drive slowing whatever HD is sharing it's channel. Eventually, I'll get a fast SATA to become my boot drive, and relegate an older drive to an external USB box.

Doc, I've replaced two IDE DVD's with Sata' now. Remarkable difference. I'd suggest for your budget is to just get a Sata 160gb drive for your boot and game drive. $50 and its fast as compared to your IDE's.

On my last P4 system, I found the more IDE's I replaced, especially the ones going through a USB port, the faster my boot sequence got. Now I just keep all that slow stuff connected to my server where it cannot affect my gaming 🙂

Get mine today. Can't wait to see how it plays UT3/COD this weekend before I give it to daughter or wife.

Doc, would you want my old p4 423 pin 512/rambus/ agp video slot, moto and chip to build a backup system with? Its about 5 yrs old, but has never stopped and its been running 24hrs a day serving the multimedia and master bedroom. You'd just need a midsize case w/20 pin supply connector, plus a 4pin p4 and I believe it also uses the 8pin inline suppliment power connecter with the 20pin one. It also doesn't have any sata and usb is 1.1, but has 4 pci slots for that type of expansion.

lexx wrote:Doc, I've replaced two IDE DVD's with Sata' now. Remarkable difference. I'd suggest for your budget is to just get a Sata 160gb drive for your boot and game drive. $50 and its fast as compared to your IDE's.

On my last P4 system, I found the more IDE's I replaced, especially the ones going through a USB port, the faster my boot sequence got. Now I just keep all that slow stuff connected to my server where it cannot affect my gaming 🙂

Get mine today. Can't wait to see how it plays UT3/COD this weekend before I give it to daughter or wife.

Doc, would you want my old p4 423 pin 512/rambus/ agp video slot, moto and chip to build a backup system with? Its about 5 yrs old, but has never stopped and its been running 24hrs a day serving the multimedia and master bedroom. You'd just need a midsize case w/20 pin supply connector, plus a 4pin p4 and I believe it also uses the 8pin inline suppliment power connecter with the 20pin one. It also doesn't have any sata and usb is 1.1, but has 4 pci slots for that type of expansion.

Yeah, replacing the IDE drives, both HD & DVD, will probably be something I want to do in the near future. I noticed another bit of weirdness today - the recycle bin took about 30-45 seconds to empty. Hopefully, things won't get much weirder than that.

Lexx, if you are getting rid of that stuff, I might be interested. It would be good for surfing the net and such, something the computer I've been using the past month could not do well at all. It's odd your RAMBUS machine only has USB 1.1. My gaming machine that just got fried was built in the summer/fall of 2003, and it had USB 2.0. You must've got it just before it became widespread.

I'll need a 4 pin p4, an 8-pin supplement power connector plus a 20-pin one? I'm not sure what you mean. What kind of weird PS is that? It's not like the one on my fried machine(20 + 4 elsewhere on the board), or like the one on my new machine(20+4 side-by-side).

Talk to me in email. I'll send you something to cover the postage.

rambus wasn't around very long, came about in near 2001 as I remember and wasn't used by 2002. It was a horrible debacle.

Bubbaspanky wrote:rambus wasn't around very long, came about in near 2001 as I remember and wasn't used by 2002. It was a horrible debacle.

Yah, I actually have two computers here running here that use rambus. One that I expanded to 512, well, you don't want to know how much that cost.

Got the P 'D' today after work. Unpacked it at 4pm and had XP SP2 running on it by 6pm. Everything came in plain brown boxes, even the motherboard. Docs are terrible, but I managed to get it together and fired up. The temp sensor on the new case seems to be mostly for looks. It has a pigtail to connect 3pin smart fan(s) to, I'm not sure how to set the rest of it up tho. The temp is simply a sensor on the end of a wire you just lay in the case somewhere. I guess I was hoping it had a sensor that plugged onto a moto.

Anyways, for a cheap $140 cpu/moto, this thing went together with zero problems and worked great out of the gate. The case is too black for me, I gotta hack in a window on it tomorrow and install a cold blue neon light I have handy 🙂

Whats a good 24hr burnin testing program, plus I want to run a performance tester on it before moving it from the bench to a working position.


I had nothing but problems with my AMD moto, this cheapass'ed one rocked 🙂 I'm going to order another one after the burn-in testing. Might as well get rid of that other substandard computer here, namely an old P3 1.0ghz. The sweet thing about this is its all ready to toss in another 775 series chip, so the D was a good solution for me to get one working quickly.

More weirdness: I was watching an AVI, clicked CLOSE, and the movie window and interface wouldn't go away. Moving windows over top of it left bits of the window in those in that area. I pressed ctrl-alt-del to try to close BSplayer. Instead of Task Manager, this error window popped up instead.

I could repeat that error at will. I rebooted, of course.

Could be BSplayer, could be GFX drivers. . . I'll just see what other weird errors occur in the future. I'm leaning towards the drivers though, since I'm using tweaked drivers.

http://www.tweakforce.com/modules.php?name...nload&cid=7

Its tough to iron out some of these issues Doc. I'd say dump BSplayer and go with the king of replay, VLC player. In fact, I think it has a feature you were looking for, transforming a video to a streaming format for web use, or perhaps that was someone else...

Your also not working with a fresh install of XP right? You could be getting system conflicts from older and different chipset drivers still in your registry. Do you have a spare HD that you can install a fresh copy of xp to?

I've ran into a couple of wierd issues with my D system. It was peachy until I installed bf2142. Next reboot it hung at the bios wanting a profile to select for the xp install. Weird stuff 🙂 I played UT3 on it for about 30 mins. Don't know whether to blame the 8500 card or the processor, but it wasn't as good as my AMD. Looks like I'm going to have to put it in place of my AMD and 7950 to determine its final resting place.

Nah Lexx, I tried a repair install as per Paladin, but it was flaky, and I have no tolerance for flaky, so I formatted and reinstalled.

More fun today: My 16x DVD writer gave up the ghost! Last night, I burned a couple DVD's, both of which had non-fatal errors when beginning the burn. Since I had verify on, I selected "Continue", and both turned out OK. . . except when Verify started, the drive and/or the disk gave a NASTY rattle I hadn't heard before-both times. Thereafter, the tray would eject when I pushed the button, but the computer never recognized when I put anything in the drive, and didn't recognize empty disks when I tried to burn more files.

I'm using my old 4x now, which isn't really a hardship, since I usually burn in 4x for reliability/reabability reasons, but the damn thing verifies at 4x too.

Oh well, at least the computer works fairly well.

LOL!

Is the gaming good?

Atomm wrote:LOL!

Is the gaming good?

Sheesh, hell yah it is. I used to pwn him, but his system is kickin ass in COD now.

Doc go back to that original site where I bought my D setup. There are OEM Sata DVD writers there under 30 bucks, IDE ones for a couple of bucks cheaper, dual format, 20x. I've bought two of them from there now and both are running great. Sumsung writemaster. Don't forget its free shipping from IN, so its closer than newegg.. 🙂

Lisa's birthday is end of next week. I'll have a backup moto for you ready as soon as I get it out of the case.

I have no complaints with the gaming speed, certainly. I'd just like to figure out the weirdness I'm experiencing and get rid of it. It's not too bad though. For now, it's tolerable. Sort of like the occasional problems I'd have under Win95.

I'll keep that place in mind if I need to pick up a SATA DVD drive. I probably will eventually - I'd like to ditch the IDE controller when I can - but after the big purchase this month, I'd like to wait a little while if I can.

More weirdness. The computer, and cursor, freezes when I unplug the cable modem network cable. Can't even open Task Manager. Comes back to life when I plug network cable back in.

The icon for my Sygate firewall has disappeared from the taskbar, though the process still seems to be running.

Edit: OK, the computer comes back after about 2-3 minutes. When I got it running without being connected to the 'Net, I uninstalled and reinstalled Sygate.

DocJon wrote:More weirdness. The computer, and cursor, freezes when I unplug the cable modem network cable. Can't even open Task Manager. Comes back to life when I plug network cable back in.

The icon for my Sygate firewall has disappeared from the taskbar, though the process still seems to be running.

Edit: OK, the computer comes back after about 2-3 minutes. When I got it running without being connected to the 'Net, I uninstalled and reinstalled Sygate.

Don't forget the 'XP' factor of windows. Because of so many different drivers and so many variations of hareware combos, its damn near impossible to have a perfect system. For the longest time my P4 3.0 would hang during network operations and clear the screen. The only thing that would restore it was to hit the 'my computer' button on my MS keyboard. Funny how that continued even after I replaced the keyboard. I had to program it into my G15 to regain the control over that.

lexx wrote:Don't forget the 'XP' factor of windows. Because of so many different drivers and so many variations of hareware combos, its damn near impossible to have a perfect system. For the longest time my P4 3.0 would hang during network operations and clear the screen. The only thing that would restore it was to hit the 'my computer' button on my MS keyboard. Funny how that continued even after I replaced the keyboard. I had to program it into my G15 to regain the control over that.

You guys are running too much crap... rarely do I have issues. Sygate was a very bad piece of software for keeping a computer running well. When I was a tech I saw far too many issues with it to ever run it. I learned Hardware firewall was the only good way.

Bubbaspanky wrote:You guys are running too much crap... rarely do I have issues. Sygate was a very bad piece of software for keeping a computer running well. When I was a tech I saw far too many issues with it to ever run it. I learned Hardware firewall was the only good way.

Zone Alarm used to be good, then they messed with it too much, and it became bloated crapware. I tried a couple others and didn't care for their behavior. . .Sygate at least seems well-behaved and light on resources, even if it hasn't been updated in a couple years.

Short of a hardware firewall, what do you recommend?

I really have nothing... you are right zone alarm was worse. I haven't found a software firewall I liked.

I'm running windows firewall along with the free version of Avast. So far, I like this combo.

I'm not running a whole lot of stuff, basically just a newsreader and Zonealarm. Maybe the router catches things I'm unaware of, but I'm used to ZA and I have 5 computers tied to the net via the router and I want at least something between me and the hackers.

Besides my daughter, I've never gotten a virus or a trojan here. Most of my problems stem from running old harddrives which wear out way too quickly.

Hmm, it just dawned on me that there was a warning to upgrade the bios on that motherboard you bought Doc. If there are quirks in the bios, that just could be causing your 'issues'.

Just don't kill it 🙂 Actually gigabyte's bios update is pretty much foolproof anymore.

lexx wrote:Hmm, it just dawned on me that there was a warning to upgrade the bios on that motherboard you bought Doc. If there are quirks in the bios, that just could be causing your 'issues'.

Just don't kill it 🙂 Actually gigabyte's bios update is pretty much foolproof anymore.

I'll keep that in mind. I'm always hesitant to change things like that, as you never know if what you'll get might be worse. . .and they haven't released a version they don't call BETA yet.

http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Support/Motherb...?ProductID=2729

There are some known issues with this board. Here's a long-ish thread in which several Gigabyte boards are said to have an issue. I'll keep track of this one, since they seem highly motivated to keep up-to-date on BIOS fixes.

http://forums.tweaktown.com/f69/p35-mother...456/index2.html

Until one is out awhile, though (and preferably without a BETA tag), I'm not gonna flash my BIOS unless things get way out of hand.

I'll try to remember to check on this every week or two.

Don't put yourself in the hell of a BETA bios!!