Net Neutrality

Net Neutrality - 'Splane it to me.
Good?
Bad?
Smoke?

What?

Net Neutrality is a good thing. The problem is that sometimes both sides use the same words to define opposite points of view.

In a nutshell, Net Neutrality is the idea that an ISP can not manipulate the packets you receive from the Internet based on their own desires.

For example, a policy of Net Neutrality would mean that you could make VoIP calls over your Internet connection without fear of your ISP taking steps to prevent or slow down those packets, while giving their own VoIP packets a higher priority.

The real fear here is that cable ISP's will throttle bandwidth for streaming video because it competes directly with their own Cable TV offering. VoIP throttling over your Internet from a telco ISP would be a similar issue. Charging Google for higher priority over BING, etc... It's about preventing the stifling of competition.

Net Neutrality - All packets are treated equally regardless of their intended purpose.

Make sense?

They will throttle my packets from my cold dead hands! 😈

👈

Yup. It has already happened here. My story shows the greater crime of not having net neutrality.

A couple years back when Comcast decided to "traffic shape" their network, I was caught in the middle. Their reason for the shaping was to limit the bandwidth hogs, i.e. the p2p people. What did their traffic rules do? Disable my vpn.

Ok thanks.
Yes Atomm it did make sense. Thank you.

You hit my soft spot..... I dig all this networking stuff. I just wish I had more of it to do at work sometimes.....

I watch the news and you get soooooo many different opinions - good - bad - just another law.
Thursday they are voting on NN legislation and I just have no idea what it was.....

I Google it and get just as many different explanations.

Being a right leaning Libertarian, I am all about keeping the Government out of our way. So I am all for Net Neutrality if the bill is truly as Atomm said "Net Neutrality - All packets are treated equally regardless of their intended purpose."

Keep the Government out of the way! Not just this but health care, carbon credits all that BS. Stay out of peoples daily lives!!!

Stop trying to regulate and run everything!!!!! That is all I want!!!!!!!!!!!

Net neutrality isn't, as far as I am aware, about the government regulating data flows. It's about keeping keeping ISPs, who often have broadband monopolies, from doing so, and that will require some government involvement.

I am not going to now debate with you on the health care issue. If you think socialized medicine is best for this country then that is your opinion. 🙂

I will say that I do not agree. In countries that have socialized medicine there is a LOT of information about people being denied dialysis after a certain age and waiting for tests so long there condition gets worse, sometimes to fatal levels. Waiting forever for simple procedures. Long lines at the DMV will pale in comparison. I could also post links but why bother.... it is just silly going back and forth... 🙂

We won't even discuss how we can possibly pay for it all, but who cares, just raise taxes for it, why not. Money is abundant it seems. We will just print more.

If their heath care is so damn good how come most people come here for treatments and not Canada or England?

Do you seriously think Dr. Hawking would have had such care if he was not a professor and as famous as he is? I am sure that had nothing to do with it. I am sure that he did not use any of his own money and ONLY used government services and let the system do everything for him. No private nurses etc.. yea right.... 🙂

Dude I am NOT saying that our system is perfect in anyway. A lot of people need some help. I say help them!!! I am not arguing that! I am not against some added Government aid, but do we need to uproot the entire system??? Do we really want the governments red tape in the way of decisions of what we can and cannot get? You think Insurance company's are bad now, and they can be, WTF do you think the Gov will do????? 🙂

Hell at least now you can get different coverage or have some options if need be. Obamas tries to convince you that his plan is just aid and we will have choices but it is NOT! Go dig deeper and read some of what they want to do. They want to control everything about you and what is good for you. You eat Potato chips, no care for you!!!! Sounds ridiculous right.... think again...

Look. I am happy with my health care, and over 80% of Americans are as well. If you do not have coverage I think you should get help. Don't force me to get welfare versions of it.

If what Obama is proposing is so good then why is Congress, all of their staff and himself excluded from being covered under it?

BTW I probably would not be alive right now if we had socialized medicine! My heart cardiomyopathy would have gone un-diagnosed, or took way too long before I got on meds, and my heart would have enlarged to the point that I would need a transplant, that I would never get, and I would be dead! So yes I speak from experience!!!!

This is all I am saying on the subject. Why argue??? I am not a lefty, let the government do everything for me, save me Obama, person and never will be. 🙂

*No I am not saying you are... I am just saying "I" am not! 🙂

Sarge wrote:Net neutrality isn't, as far as I am aware, about the government regulating data flows. It's about keeping keeping ISPs, who often have broadband monopolies, from doing so, and that will require some government involvement.

I actually have not looking into the details myself. Either way I am not for monopolies but they exist. This is one of the things I guess the government has to be involved in.

In this case if it promotes competition, I am all for it. 🙂

Paladin wrote:I am not going to now debate with you on the health care issue. If you think socialized medicine is best for this country then that is your opinion. 🙂

............

*No I am not saying you are... I am just saying "I" am not! 🙂

Looks like a crosslinked message from last year ;p

Left, libertarian, or conservative, the gov is always going to have a hand in everything. This pretty much was started by congress de-regulating the cable industry and at the same time enacting rules and laws of conduct on the net, ie, child pornography guidelines and copyrite violations that cut into Isps. Under the guise of protection, big brother yet again bites the people it works for. Comcast seems happy to twist these rules to suit its business model. Its all about the almighty buck.


I would have preferred the gov just gave insurance to the un-insured for $28bill or so via a welfare program. Its not about insurance or coverage, its about controlling your life and buying a permanent voting block.

Yea Paladin. You hit on the confusion.

There was a comment to the FCC comments solicitation website that said and I'm paraphrasing:

I'm against Net Neutrality because I want to keep regulation out of the Internet so it will stay free and open as it always has.

This is a flat out misunderstanding of what the FCC is proposing.

This is where the confusion comes from. I'm also against the Government getting involved in my business, but in this one case, I think they need to step in and make sure the Companies don't take advantage of the consumer because the Duopoly is just as bad as a Monopoly. And they want to manipulate the traffic to their own advantage at the expense of the consumer. So, by passing Net Neutrality, the government will basically say that no provider can prevent or give a higher or lower priority to data traveling across their network. All traffic must be treated equally.

I'd also like to point out that the FCC wants to apply the current ideas about wired Internet net neutrality to the wireless spectrum as well. As it stands, AT&T can dictate what packets are allowed on their wireless network. This is why they can cancel your account for bypassing the Iphone tethering restriction for PC's. This scares the hell out of them because they don't actually want to build out these networks like they should. In Europe, they actually take the opposite approach and wireless in Europe is way better than what is offered in the US.

Here's a good idea that explains the confusion.

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/20...k-neutering.ars

If you don't want to read it, then at least read the last paragraph

Net neutrality actually encourages the sort of innovation that we want in our networks—higher speeds, open access to innovative new applications and uses—the FiOS model. And everyone can profit from it, including the ISPs. Removing even the threat of such action encourages not innovation but modest speeds, high prices, and discriminatory throttling of user connections.

Ars Technica really follows this stuff and does a good job of breaking it down. That's where I've been reading up on this issue.

Where did the health care argument come from?

Bubbaspanky wrote:Where did the health care argument come from?

Paladin brought on the healthcare debate in his first post above, back when this was about net neutrality.

I deleted my post addressing that. No one had replied, and no one showed as reading this forum, so I thought I got it in time. I do not have the time to go into this right now. I'm too busy trying to get my sister through this semester of college. In fact, I'm deleting my link to the GRB forums, as an added attempt to avoid getting into this any further this week.

Suffice to say, I have a lot of bowel problems due to my Ulcerative Colitis. I've got screwed out of insurance by a couple employers, and I am not getting proper treatment currently, and haven't for years. I thought I had cancer late last year (which is a common issue with this disease, moreso if it's not kept in check, like mine), and I put off going to the doctors. I worked with a man who died at my age because of UC. Even though I haven't had a colonoscopy in 4 years, it's probably not cancer. I'm not dead.

Even so, I'm still having problems, and have had three courses of steroids this year. They're no fun, but they're like ten cents a pill, so at least they're cheap. The doctor's talking about immuno-suppressive therapy, and I shudder to think what that will cost. Won't matter really, if it's past a certain cost, I just won't get it

I've gone from the kind of person that gets employee of the month awards to being unable to reliably keep a part-time job, which doesn't give me insurance anyway. I just want to get healthy so I can keep a job and not have times when I sit on the commode crying from the pain. WORST PAIN OF MY LIFE. My broken foot, broken bones in my hand, broken finger, broken ribs. . . none of them compare with the pain from my UC when it's not controlled.

I don't have time to get into this now, but if someone wants to revisit the healthcare debate after the weekend, I'll be here, and I will bring the facts and cites.

OK I left in a huff last year because it got to political (no thanks to me also) I'll take the hit for that one (or at least for a part of it)

It's taken me a year to realize everyone's allowed an opinion and mine is no more correct than anyone else and each of our opinions carry the same weight.

I will refuse to read this thread again if it tarrsys off in to bashing - finger pointing and the like.
I wanted to know WHAT Net Neutrality was ....not political ranting.

If this is going to turn in to that Atomm, Bubba. Sarge, Doc fell free to delete this whole damn thread and pretend it never happened. I have the information and an idea of what to Google if need be.

IF you want to keep it ON TOPIC then that's cool too. But I REAALLY don't want a repeat of last year. It's taken me a long time to realize Doc is not the enemy I had in my head - he's just a guy that feeles the way he does and I need to realize were all right.

My Dad says - Your rights end - where mine begin.
Well it works both ways, Docs rights (and opinion) DO begin where mine should end. And vice-versa.
It should have NEVER came to what it did - AND it does NOT need to start AGAIN.

PLEASE!


Doc - it should not have taken me this long to apologize for last year and my tantrum - the apology should have been the first thing I did when I came back - or even before - you didn't say a word - we just picked up DDO and started playing. Thank you.

DOCJON: Paladin brought on the healthcare debate in his first post above, back when this was about net neutrality.

I just made a statement, not an argument 🙂

LEXX: I would have preferred the gov just gave insurance to the un-insured for $28bill or so via a welfare program. Its not about insurance or coverage, its about controlling your life and buying a permanent voting block.

I agree with Lexx, why can't they just help those with no coverage without re-tooling the ENTIRE F-in system. Please tell me how doing it that way is not a good approach?

That is all I am saying here... Help! NOT totally redo the entire thing.

So to re-cap: help people like Doc that do not have any coverage. Do NOT mess with people that do and do not cover anyone not a citizen!

What is wrong with that idea???

DOCJON: I don't have time to get into this now, but if someone wants to revisit the healthcare debate after the weekend, I'll be here, and I will bring the facts and cites.

Don't bother man. I can find and cite as many "facts" from my point of view, it will solve nothing. 😉

Besides we agree here over all. You want coverage, I want to see you have some, so where is the argument really?

DUCK: It's taken me a long time to realize Doc is not the enemy I had in my head - he's just a guy that feeles the way he does and I need to realize were all right.

Apologies are nice.... Just saying.... 😉

Paladin wrote:Apologies are nice.... Just saying.... 😉

Yah Yah Yah - you got yours in 2007.
One a year - no matter who you are.......
Lol

This was a topic about net neutrality, not politics, not healthcare. We are all still getting along, we all know we won't get along if we continue down the politics path. I will end this now. Duck I think you got a good take on net neutrality from Atomm. I would concur with him on his points.

thread closed.

I derailed this thread. . . well, Paladin mentioned other subjects, and I responded to it. Lesson learned to stay on topic, I hope 🙂

I deleted my post hoping no one had seen it, but it was too late - thread derailed.

So since I derailed it, I wanted to post back here and apologize. This is a subject that's important to me, not for some abstract philosophical reason, but because it's seemingly my only hope to get back on my feet and be the person I used to be.

I may be too attached to this subject to discuss it calmly, and if I could, what would it accomplish? Everyone, myself included, gets too invested in what they believe, and holds onto it for dear life. Even if you do the research and dig for the truth yourself, you reach the point where everything becomes so damn fuzzy that you realize that you might never get at 'the truth'. When you're young, you think truth is a simple concept, but reading up on complicated subjects sometimes reminds me of digging in an overused cow pasture. You sift through mounds and mounds of bullshit hoping to find a little kernel of truth you can really believe. It seems all but impossible to get to the truth of matters, particularly in politics where every word and sentence is twisted to the breaking point.

I guess the best we can do is TRY to understand, and while we do that, realize that those around us are also trying to understand, and aren't an enemy who wish ill upon us.

Again, sorry about the derailment. And Duck, that was a great post. Don't worry about an apology. It's good having you in-game again. If we required everyone in our lives to be nice, proper and reasonable at all times, we'd all be very lonely people.


I'll lock the door behind me here, and I'll see you guys in-game Friday, I hope. Let's get some good loot and try not to die so much!

Paladin wrote:Not that I agree with FOX all the time either... 🙂

I hope to Christ you don't! They're not even news, they're 24-hour a day right-wing commentary. The only reason I ever tune in is to see if today is the day Hannity's big giant head explodes from trying to contain his ego.

If you really believe they're a 'fair and balanced' news source, I shall quit bugging you about anything, because you're too far gone to save.

There's questionable, then there's jumping up and down and shouting from the rooftops, "I'm a goddamn fraud!" Fox is the latter. Honestly, how can you not see it? They do everything but wear the T-shirt!

DOC TAKE A BREATH DUDE!
This time your the one to hijack the thread with the start of the ANTI-Rants.

I like FOX - yah it's my source 98% of the time - deal with it.
But I'm smart enough to know shit from shineola when I hear it, let me make that decision for my self, and keep the mud slinging and personal opinions just that - personal.

This SECOND attempt at the NN thread is NOT about Health care, News Organizations or Green house gasses. It's about WHAT NN is and what it means to us.

I refuse to be dragged in to this shit pile again.
So PLEASE shut it down before it becomes a mud fest and bring it back on topic PLEASE.

Or lock it again Bubba if we still can't prove to play nice with each other.

Duck wrote:DOC TAKE A BREATH DUDE!
This time your the one to hijack the thread with the start of the ANTI-Rants.

I like FOX - yah it's my source 98% of the time - deal with it.
But I'm smart enough to know shit from shineola when I hear it, let me make that decision for my self, and keep the mud slinging and personal opinions just that - personal.

This SECOND attempt at the NN thread is NOT about Health care, News Organizations or Green house gasses. It's about WHAT NN is and what it means to us.

I refuse to be dragged in to this shit pile again.
So PLEASE shut it down before it becomes a mud fest and bring it back on topic PLEASE.

Or lock it again Bubba if we still can't prove to play nice with each other.

If someone brings up a topic, I'm allowed to respond to it. In the other thread, I wasn't the first to mention health care. In this thread, I wasn't the first to mention Fox news.

Duck, I really am sorry, and you're showing admirable restraint. But in each case, I'm not the first person to bring it up.

I will ATTEMPT to refrain from responding to these in the future. To passing references, anyway . . .

It's nice to see that we have all grown as people..... Good for everyone!