Windows 7

Started by Paladin · 68 posts · 9,696 views

  1. #1
    I understand everyone was distracted yesterday with all the partying, with it being my Birthday and all, but Windows 7 did come out. 🙂

    This is the most tested OS EVER! Over 8 Millions official and another 8 un-official people beta tested it and gave feedback to MS automatically. That is over 15 million testers!!! WOW!!!

    Even though I am in IT, I never got around to testing it myself but have read a lot. Most everything is good. People actually waited in line for this one! For a MS product! WOW!

    Any opinions here etc...?
  2. #2
    I have been running it since the beta. It has been my primary OS at home since the day RC1 came out. While a handful of times I suspected it was Win7 causeing issues on my computer in almost all cases that has proved not to be true. My old soundcard had issues with it, primarily because creative didn't write and Win7 drivers for that card.

    As for performance, it is faster than Vista, but of course more bloated than xp, but doesn't seem much difference in performance.

    Of course, I don't use much for junk software, keep my machines clean, and spend alot of time to build them with high quality parts that don't have conflicts. And I format and reinstall often. So I don't ever tend to have issues anyways.

    All in all, Win7 has been good. I got my early order of the OS yesterday and will install it this weekend. I am not sure its so great that it is worth any more hype than any other OS. Its not Windows ME, and its better than XP was at release. I am not a fan of pretty over function, but if you are this is a pretty OS (think OS X).
  3. #3
    I'm awaiting my copy but I won't have time to install it for at least a week. I'm debating on waiting until I have all the parts for a new machine before installing, but if I do that it may never happen 😀
  4. #4
    My issue is always work related - does our industrial software run on 7?
    Vista - Non compliant
    XP - Only Pro SP2 - any other build our communications driver package is a no-go

    The only two versions of Winblows we can use is NT and XP Pro SP2

    The mother ship says it's still testing to verify - (then again there still testing Vista...)
    Our issue is should the OS go FUBAR and a machine process forgets where it's at - humans can get hurt or die from an OS crash for us......

  5. #5
    Yeah, Win 7 works with my software for work, though I am not about to adopt it for my office yet.
  6. #6
    My order should be showing up today. I'll be upgrading Vista to Win7 primarily so I can test my software on it. I've got clients getting new machines with Win7 over the next week and I need to make sure they can run my software on it reliably.

    The only thing I ever used Vista for personal use was Movie Maker, since it can handle HD resolutions. Game videos look pretty pathetic in NTSC, especially for long distance sniper kills and such. If Movie Maker in Win7 is better than in Vista, than my $99 investment will have been worth it.


    Bubbaspanky wrote:I am not a fan of pretty over function

    Same here. The 1st I always do is optimize the OS settings for performance over looks and disable the "Themes" service. I want my games to look pretty, not the OS. 😀
  7. #7
    Ummmm Larva, there is no Win Movie Maker in Win 7, at least there wasn't in RC1
  8. #8
    Ok seems you can install WLMM 2.6, but its the same version as the vista version, it does not come as part of the OS.
  9. #9
    I actually want Windows 7... My problem is two fold. One, my OS partition isn't big enough to install 7, so I have to move everything else off of the drive and redo the partitions, then move everything back.

    Because of how dirty of an install this is going to be, I really want to start a new system from scratch. I can't afford that at the moment. Maybe I'll just buy an SSD and load the OS on it and move my primary drive to a secondary.

    Then there is finding the time. The install won't be so bad, but reinstalling all of my apps is going to be a pain in the butt.....
  10. #10
    Bubbaspanky wrote:Ok seems you can install WLMM 2.6, but its the same version as the vista version, it does not come as part of the OS.

    Thanks for the info. 2.6 would work just fine - I just want more format/codec options. Their 1080P .WMV format isn't true widescreen 1080P - it's 1440 X 1080 instead of 1920 X 1080 like I'd prefer. Maybe there's a way I can install the additional codec separately? I'll search around.


    Microsoft's stock is way up. Of course I believe it went up during the Vista release as well. They made a lot off $$ of Vista, even though the customers were dissappointed after the fact, it was too late for a refund.
  11. #11
    I'm waiting on two copies too. Shipping is at least a week since I choose free ;p

    No rush to install either one yet but I wanted to buy it at that price.
  12. #12
    It figures, the box with Win7 shows up and my wife is mad that I spent $$ on it. Once she saw what it was that I ordered, she decided that she wanted it on her computer. 🙄 Guess I'll need to by myself another copy, or hope that my BizSpark application goes through at Microsoft.
  13. #13
    Yoda says--P-whipped you are...

    I cannot believe you would not simply order her a copy and use it. 🙂
    I am not saying not get her a copy but man, you are the one who ordered it in the first place.

    Just harassing you married guys 🙂
  14. #14
    I'm whipped alright - it's part of being married. If the wife ain't happy, nobody is happy. 😀 We held off on getting her a copy until we're sure her laptop can handle it. It is running Vista so most likely it will Win7, possible even better from what I hear - apparently they optimized Win7 so that it uses less resources than Vista.

    Well I installed Windows 7 today. It wouldn't let me do an in-place upgrade from Vista Home Premium to Windows 7 Professional, but it wasn't a big deal. I just did a clean install. It was the quickest and easiest install I've ever done - very few prompts and I didn't have to pop in a floppy for RAID drivers or anything.

    So far, it seems OK. I'm going to install Visual Studio and SQL Server next, so that'll be the real test.
  15. #15
    I'm about to order my copy of Windows 7. I've been scoping out how I want to do this. I'd love to upgrade my whole PC, but I think I need to build a second PC for my daughter and my wife when I'm on this one.

    I put together a darn fine PC for $240. I get XP for free through work, so that's just hardware. I'm still debating on if I want to pull the trigger or not.

    Should I build this PC, I'll have some P-4 1.8 stuff to divvy out if anyone needs spares.
  16. #16
    I just told the wife it wouldn't work on her machine ;p

    ...still waiting on my copies to arrive by US mail. Amazon sux.
  17. #17
    So far, I aboslutely love Win7. It's not only better than Vista, but it seems to be better than XP as well. It was the easiest and fastest install of an OS ever for me.

    I'm already moving all of my development tools over from my old P4 XP box over to my QC Win7 system.

    You can go here and download/install Virtual PC for free. It lets you setup as many virtual installs of as many different operating systems as your drive space and memory resources can handle. It was the easiest virtual machine I've ever set up. I'm setting up a virgin virtual install of XP SP3 with all of the latest updates. Then I can just make a copy when I want to setup another virtual system. It uses virtualization hardware-acceleration from my CPU to make my virtual environment run really fast.

    With this, I should be able to use Adobe Premiere 6.5 and Visual Studio 6 even though I'm running the 64-bit version of Windows 7. My box came with both 32-bit and 64-bit discs, unlike Vista.
  18. #18
    It has been less than a week but I like W7 so far. I decided to take the final step and went 64 bit as it came on the machine already so I did not want to bother downgrading it. It is also the only way to see all 8 GB of memory. I will install my CS4 Master suite which will give me Adobe Premier etc... Then to get my DAW software and controller working and I should be good to go.

    I will be a W7 expert within 6 months as I will be supporting it at work but for now it is fresh and new. Ahhh that new OS smell... 🙂

    So far everything is running on it but I have not installed nearly everything I use yet.

    All the steam games and my Cod4 and CodW@W run fine. DDO runs fine of course except the weird multiple monitor glitch which is solved by running the game windowed.

    I did have to install DirectX9 to get Cod running. I guess DX9 and 11 don't interfere.

    Funny note, I could not find my CoDW@W disks at all so I just copied the folder from my old HD. I had to also pull in my old registry from the old machine by sucking in the ntuser.dat file, finding a program to read it to see the old keys. I had to then figure out where the normal CoD installed under W7 and created a new key for W@W under it using my W@W serial and path.

    Bottom line is it took me a few hours to figure out what needed to be done but I got W@W working on the new machine without re-installing a thing so it was already patched and ready to go! 🙂

    I did also have to copy my profile over but man that was a LOT easier than re-installing the game and installing each and every patch etc... Now that I know what needs to be done it would not take much time.

    I am now a HUGE fan of Steam (well even more) as that was simply a matter of telling it what games to re-install and it just did it. No CD or key worries.

    So if anyone needs help with this, let me know.
  19. #19
    So comparing W7 to Vista - your seeing less "issues" in a weeks time with W7 VS: V?
    Sounds good.
  20. #20
    I never really had Vista on my gaming rig so I cannot compare it that way.

    Vista really got a bad rep and I don' think I would have had tons of Vista issues. Vista was not "THAT" bad... 🙂
    However I am ready to move on 🙂

    I am saying that so far 64 bit W7 and games are fine. 🙂
    It is early days though. 🙂
  21. #21
    I'm curious Paladin. If you have 8GB of Ram, do you still use a swap file?

  22. #22
    Atomm wrote:I'm curious Paladin. If you have 8GB of Ram, do you still use a swap file?



    I never turned it off so as far as I know it is on, I can check when I get home. Windows will always need some type of swap file it seems 🙂
  23. #23
    I turned off the page file once because I thought it would optimize the system, making it run faster. But later on I read from a Microsoft developer that it's better to leave the page file on, no matter how much memory you have. The page file is good for things that need to run relatively fast, but aren't more important than what you have running in your RAM. It can actually degrade system performance by forcing processes into your RAM that don't need to be there.

    You can optimize it by putting the page file on a separate drive than your operating system - but it's best to have it on your fastest hard drive. You can also optimize it by fixing the size to the recommended amount - this will prevent windows from slowing things down by expanding and shrinking the file while you're in the middle of something.

    I always create a small partition at the beginning of a hard drive dedicated just for the page file. Things run faster on the inside of the disc than the outside. This way it never needs to be defragmented nor does it interfere with the defragmentation process.
  24. #24
    -=NC=-Larva wrote:I always create a small partition at the beginning of a hard drive dedicated just for the page file. Things run faster on the inside of the disc than the outside. This way it never needs to be defragmented nor does it interfere with the defragmentation process.


    That is an awesome idea, but how do you pull that off during a fresh install? Doesn't windows always want to make the first partition C? Or do you put it on a different hard drive and at the beginning?
  25. #25
    I put it on another drive/array if I have one - having it on a different drive/array than the OS is a performance benefit by itself. This way the OS can use one channel while the page file uses another channel.

    I have to create my partitions before installing windows because I always install hard drives in pairs for a striped RAID array. I use the onboard RAID utility to create my partitions and RAID arrays. Even on a RAID array you can set up 2 partitions.

    If you were going to do this through windows setup on a standard drive, I would create 3 partitions: 1st one for page file; 2nd one for OS and programs; 3rd for storing downloads, movies, music, etc., Then you can just choose to install Windows on the 2nd partition - I believe windows would then designate that partition as C, especially if you leave the other 2 paritions unformatted until after install. If not, you should be able to change the drive letter afterwards using Computer Management in Administrative Tools.


    My configuration is a bit more complicated and the partition sizes are estimates, since NTFS uses up a lot of space for itself. RAID only lets me put 2 partitions on each RAID array so I had to use windows to split the 20GB partition into 2 X 10GB partitions after the fact to give me 3 total on my 2nd array. If I had to do it over again, I would have doubled the space available for my Page File Partitions at 20GB each.

    2 GB Striped Raid Array (2 X 1TB 3Gbs Drives)
    C: XP64 - 250 GB
    S: Win7 - 1750 GB

    2 GB Striped Raid Array (2 X 1TB 3Gbs Drives)
    X: XP64 Page File - 10 GB
    Y: Win7 Page File - 10 GB
    Z: Storage - 1980 GB

    Stiped RAID arrays are nice because it doubles your bandwith - the downside is you are twice as vulnerable to losing everything on both discs if only one of them dies on you. But if you backup often, which you should do anyways, the performance benefits far outweigh the risks. Most gaming MBs come with 3Gbs RAID nowadays and it's easy as hell to setup and use, especially with Vista and Windows 7.
  26. #26
    Damn Larva you just saved me a whole lot of typing 🙂

    I used to do the page file on separate HD's and partitions but to be honest you really do not see that much improvement these days overall. Modern controllers and SATA HD's are fast enough now to make that not as necessary as it used to be. Sure if you are a total speed freak and want every last drop out of it, go for it. I personally do not think the hassle is worth the small increase in speed/performance.

    I just use Western Digital s Black drives these days. Damn close to Raptor performance in a 7200RPM package. I LOVE those HD's!

    I do not always RAID at home. I am unsure, personally, that it is worth it sometimes and I would NEVER stripe for the reasons above. Mirroring your system HD (RAID 1) is never a bad idea (but at the cost of "some" performance) and I have done that on a few systems I have had. I was actually thinking of doing that on this new system but I just run Norton Ghost and backup once a week to an external HD. So I am usually fine. HD prices are so cheap though that I still may do it, having fault tolerance is always nice. I am very mixed on this. 😉

    Striping (RAID 0) can cause you to lose double the data and HD's are so damn large now, it is not needed space wise. Bandwidth wise.. It is okay... I don't see more than 10% tops improvement to be honest so I just don't. Again in older systems this was all more important but thankfully HD's are getting so damn good buffering, with more cache, and performance wise these days that RAID-ing is usually only beneficial for servers where you have many many read/writes going on from various users. You don' t usually need this at home. I agree RAID at home may help you a bit since you do video editing but even doing that you can benefit from more RAM first. It is a personal choice.

    If I REALLY had to RAID I would do RAID 0+1 but that is usually not possible at home. 😉

    Just make your Page File a fixed size, defrag and it will run fine.

    As I said, the page file will never go away 🙂

    This is JMHO so....
  27. #27
    I agree that most people can do perfectly fine without optimizing to the extreme like I have. I'm a tweak freak and enjoy doing what I do.

    I also have to do this because of the video editing that I do. My hard drives get fragmented like crazy when I'm working on videos. Every minute of game video I record at 1920 X 1200 takes up about 4GB per minute - record for a few hours and I fill up my hard drives pretty quick. My 8MM tape files are between 13 - 18GB each. It's when I move the files around and organize them that I can fragment my drives in a single day, easily.

    I've thought about going RAID 10 - get all the benefits of Stiped and Mirror and none of the limitations. I've also thought about doing a single striped RAID array with 4 - 6 drives! I'll try it some day. 😈

    One thing I recommend to everyone is to get an external USB / Esata drive to back up important files on your family's computers. Also back up the irreplacable stuff on CD-R/DVD-Rs or an offsite online backup site as well. Nothing is worse than losing music, pictures or legal documents. While you don't want to think of such a tragedy, if your house burned down while you were on vacation, family pictures are one of the few things you couldn't replace.
  28. #28
    I use Jungle Disk to backup to Amazon's cloud. It's super cheap and I love it!
  29. #29
    Don't get me wrong larva, I think it is awesome to play with that stuff. I just wish I had more patience for it after doing it all day 🙂

    Just a note for you, there is a difference between 1+0, (Raid 10) and 0+1 (Raid 01.) You may want 0+1. 🙂
  30. #30
    Just some W7 info: I am already learning a lot about it.

    You probably already know this but you CAN buy and use the upgrade version to install a full copy of W7. You don't need the full version and it seems fine with MS.

    You can also upgrade your RC versions to the retail versions, upgrading in place.

    If anyone needs more info, let me know.

    I have not yet found a way to upgrade an XP installation but you can Vista. Of course a fresh install is always best if you have the patience. 🙂
  31. #31
    Paladin wrote:You can also upgrade your RC versions to the retail versions, upgrading in place.


    I have seen specifically from MS that this was not going to be possible (this was a couple months back), could you point me to a place about this? I would love to do this, I have a nice clean install of RC and don't have the time right now, but need to get final on soon.

    thx

  32. #32
    Bubbaspanky wrote:I have seen specifically from MS that this was not going to be possible (this was a couple months back), could you point me to a place about this? I would love to do this, I have a nice clean install of RC and don't have the time right now, but need to get final on soon.

    thx


    I am not expert on this but I mentioned it because I stumbled this article so mentioned it in case anyone needed it.

    I am unsure if I would not just recommend a fresh install though.

    Here you go man.
    http://www.lockergnome.com/theoracle/2009/...grade-in-place/
  33. #33
    Cool I will give it a try, if it doesn't work, then I will start a new. Thanks for the link
  34. #34
    I've found that the version of Windows Movie Maker that came with Vista is not what you get with Windows 7 Professional. In Win7 Pro you get the Windows Live version of Movie Maker.

    Right off that bat, I can tell you I liked the previous version better as far as the easy-to-use interface. Win7 does let you make movies in true 1080P, unlike the narrow version of the format that Vista allows. Unfortunately for me I've already compressed most of the footage I have of -=NC=-, |GRB| and =DC= guys playing using the old Vista 1080P format. I was able to copy over the Vista version of Movie Maker, but it doesn't have all the codecs necessary to keep from losing resolution/quality when I cut a new movie.

    I'll have to do more research on this. Perhaps I'll get used to the new interface, but so far it seems too generic, general-purpose, and retarded. Sometimes when developers over-consolidate interfaces, they end up making life easier for themselves and harder for the end users. That being said, this is the only thing I've found in Win7 so far that has been unpleasant.
  35. #35
    A side note.

    You can get Win7 for ~$40 if you have a student/.edu email address.

    http://www.win741.com/
  36. #36
    Paladin wrote:Just some W7 info: I am already learning a lot about it.

    You probably already know this but you CAN buy and use the upgrade version to install a full copy of W7. You don't need the full version and it seems fine with MS.

    I've been checking into this as well.

    That's right: save $80 and buy the Windows 7 Upgrade disc, because you can use it to perform a clean, full-featured installation. Awesome!

    The instructions are as follows:

    1. Perform a clean installation using the Upgrade disc -- this should work without a hitch.

    2. Make sure there are no Windows Updates pending -- if there's an orange shield icon next to the Shutdown button in the Start Menu, that means you need to reboot before attempting the next steps.

    3. Open 'regedit.exe' from the Start Menu -- just type it in there, where it says: Search programs and files. Accept the User Account Control dialogue that pops up to give yourself Windows 7 superpowers.

    4. Navigate to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE/Software/Microsoft/Windows/CurrentVersion/Setup/OOBE/

    5. Change MediaBootInstall from '1' to '0'

    6. Open the Start Menu again and type 'cmd' -- use ctrl+shift+enter to run it as an elevated-permissions user

    7. Finally, type slmgr /rearm -- and press enter.

    Your computer will now reboot and run the Activate Windows utility. Type in your product key aaaaaaand, as the SuperSite Blog says: voila! Much love, Paul.
  37. #37
    Well, I ordered Windows 7 Professional Today...... I decided to pick up Dragon Age Origins while I was at it. Still no idea when I'll play it, but I love Bioware RPG's.....

    I also picked up a brand new clean hard drive to load everything on. I was going to do a side by side until I figured out what I needed. The cool part is I was about to order a 320GB drive from Newegg for $50 when a coworker says, whoa, don't do that. Turns out, he set us up as a channel partner with Seagate. So, for the same $50, I just ordered a 1TB drive..... WOOHOO!

    Still planning on running 32-bit for now. Maybe when I decide to upgrade my whole PC, I'll look at moving to 64-bit....

  38. #38
    Silent Cold wrote:A side note.

    You can get Win7 for ~$40 if you have a student/.edu email address.

    http://www.win741.com/

    Thanks Cold. I'm downloading it now. I wonder if I just could have used one of the DVD's that came in the other upgrade kits and just used the activation code from this email? In any case I guess its better to be sure...

    Only one per email 🙁 I could use 3 or 4 more copies. You can also buy Professional for the same money but it states that signing into domains is removed? Wtf does that mean? ;p
  39. #39
    If you had an internal domain setup at your house you could not log into it. A domain on this occasion is used to mean a type of networking setup whereby you use one central server to authenticate your users. The reason they remove it is because this deal is for students and in theory students wouldn't use domain, but many colleges do.
  40. #40
    Just as a side note. I am not making any accusations here, just stating a fact. I have always found it strange when people break rules in order to buy 'legal software'. i.e. saying you are a student or finding a way to buy student software when you are not. The reality is that the license isn't valid if you lied to obtain it, so if you aren't a student and you buy a student license the license isn't valid. You would be in the same legal standing if you just copied a DVD of the software or if you downloaded it from pirate bay, except you paid to buy an invalid license.

    I know a guy who paid quite a bit of money for MSDN disks of various OSs and software on EBAY. That software cannot be legally transferred, so really he was no more legal than stealing it, but he paid alot of money for it.
  41. #41
    lexx wrote:Thanks Cold. I'm downloading it now. I wonder if I just could have used one of the DVD's that came in the other upgrade kits and just used the activation code from this email? In any case I guess its better to be sure...

    Only one per email 🙁 I could use 3 or 4 more copies. You can also buy Professional for the same money but it states that signing into domains is removed? Wtf does that mean? ;p


    Domains are used for people like me that run servers. All my users computers connect to my servers domain. You will never use it so do not worry about it, it is more for business use.
  42. #42
    To anyone using Windows 7, go and DL a utility disk that will help you.

    What it does: The Windows 7 Recovery Disc can be used to access a system recovery menu, giving you options of using System Restore, Complete PC Backup, automated system repair, and a command-line prompt for manual advanced recovery.

    What it doesn't do: You cannot use the Windows 7 Recovery Disc to re-install Windows - it only fixes (not replaces!) Windows.

    32 bit version:
    http://neosmart.net/downloads/miscellania/...%20Disc.torrent

    64 bit version:
    http://neosmart.net/downloads/miscellania/...%20Disc.torrent
  43. #43
    lexx wrote:Thanks Cold. I'm downloading it now. I wonder if I just could have used one of the DVD's that came in the other upgrade kits and just used the activation code from this email? In any case I guess its better to be sure...

    Only one per email 🙁 I could use 3 or 4 more copies. You can also buy Professional for the same money but it states that signing into domains is removed? Wtf does that mean? ;p


    I didn't finish out my post fast enough, you can actually get the CD for Win7 Pro Full for about $50 if you call them and order it over the phone during the day, I did this yesterday my wife had done it before. When I tried on the weekend I got some girl who didn't want to work and said she couldn't do it.

    number = (877) 696 7786

    Full copy of Windows 7 Pro with disc shipped for $35
    Just have to ask to purchase over the phone the Student Special for Win7, have a valid *.edu email, and call when there are people willing to work [8-5 M-F].
  44. #44
    Wish me luck.... I'm backing a few things up to another drive, then I'm going to put my new drive in and start installing Windows 7.... This should be fun.....

  45. #45
    Didn't get far. Moved some drives around to put my new HD in. Move the DVD so the power would reach. Powered up, but the DVD wasn't working. Powered down to reseat the power cable. Pushed the power button and blam, no power.

    I'm really starting to think I have a power switch issue or a power supply issue. Since I bought a really good power supply, I'm putting my money on my power switch. Now if I could just find another switch to try........

    Then again, it could be a chipset heat issue like I've always thought. Things go fine until I turn it off and try to turn it back on right away..... That's heat, right?

    So the saga continues, I'm down again.... Man I love computers......
  46. #46
    The switch is easy to test, its on a monetary contact. Just simply short the two wires to turn on the computer, again to shut down.

    Ha, modern electronics and what you have doesn't mean you didn't get a dud. F', why didn't a mention of a ps come up before. I bought an Aztec last year that lasted all of 6 months. Can you pull one from another computer and try?


    Also, is it wise to install win7 on a computer your going to be switching moto/cpu/ram on?? Like how does the activation work? I thought it takes a snapshot of your system hardware and stores that away with MS. Change the hardware and you may get 'this key is in use' problem. Simply changing hardware and letting windows install new moto drivers doesn't really work all that well either. I'd make sure before proceeding.

    Maybe I'm thinking of an OEM version that you would buy at newegg. Can anyone enlighten me about this since I'm going to be doing the same thing x 5.
  47. #47
    I thought I could short it. Just tried it an no go. I really think it's the mobo, but I'll pull the power supply from my backup system and give it a shot. At least then I'll know for sure.

    From what I've read and been told by the guys at work, OEM is the one that locks down when you change out a certain piece of hardware. But they said to call Microsoft and tell them you had to replace whatever it was because it went bad and they will reactivate it for you.

    I think the retail version is more forgiving.

    If it is the mobo, I'm upgrading to an I5 and I'll load windows then.
  48. #48
    Yah, I've read OEM is the worse. I have two of those in Vista flavor. Hmm, if I apply the upgrade to the OEM does the OEM go away, or will I have a more forgiving version. No wonder half the world is hacking it.
  49. #49
    I think if you go to Retail Upgrade, it's as if you were running retail. Remember, as long as you do a clean install, it only checks the disk. It doesn't actually pull a key.

    Also, it is my power supply. My second computer is a 20 pin plus 4 and my main is a 24 pin plus 4. It's not enough to run it, but it powers up with the 20 pin. Man, that sucks. This will make the second Power Supply I've burned up in under 3 years. And this wasn't a cheapy either. I know the power in my house is really bad. You can watch the lights flicker up and down in several rooms. I'm starting to think I better invest in a UPS for the brown outs and to help the power supply.
  50. #50
    Atomm wrote:And this wasn't a cheapy either. I know the power in my house is really bad. You can watch the lights flicker up and down in several rooms. I'm starting to think I better invest in a UPS for the brown outs and to help the power supply.


    Brown outs like that will wear out a powersupply quickly. A UPS is the key there.

    As for OEM and parts being changed, you are exactly right, certain parts changed will trigger you to reactivate. That is because an OEM license is only valid on the hardware it came with, at some point upgrades make your machine a "new machine" that is when you need to reactivate.

    As for a clean install, Atomm you are slightly off base. When you do a clean install of 7, you need to enter the key. If you have an upgrade DVD, your upgrade key won't work with a clean install, so you have to leave the key blank and use the work around. however as part of the work around you enter your key. It doesn't ever check for the previous OS, but it does validate your key. I can explain better if needed.

  51. #51
    Wow Atomm, I had no idea that you did NOT have a UPS 🙂

    I simply will not run my computer unless I have one on it. Brown outs will just kill a computer.
    I also have a UPS on my TV. I never understood how people will invest sometimes thousands of dollars on a nice TV and not add an extra $100 and protect it. A surge protector alone is not enough IMHO.

    I personally have 4 UPS's. one went bad and another just went, not my computer one, so I am down to two but will replace those no matter what if they go. I HAVE to have one on my main computer and one on my TV t the minimum no matter what....
  52. #52
    Bubba, you are right. I was making an assumption based on prior install versions. I'll have to find that work around post because that's exactly what I am doing.

    Paladin, I know. It wasn't smart of me. I bought one today when I got the new Power Supply. I'm going to go back and get one for my Tivo and TV. The power in this house is just too flaky to take further chances.

    I'm going to start a windows install thread so we can help each other learn.

    Well, here I go. Rebooting and installing 7.
  53. #53
    Don't forget to get the right sized UPS. Watts, not minutes!

    I increased my PS to 700w and my UPS is useless when the power goes out since its only 500w rated.
  54. #54
    Hmmm..... I may be out of luck there. I tried to get a 550 watt power supply, but they were out of them, so I went with the 650 instead. I think my UPS was in that range.

    I guess one thing I don't understand is if I have a 650 watt power supply, does that mean my system is really using 650 watts. I thought it would only use what it needed.

    For me, I need a UPS that will help with brown outs and the occasional quick power drop.
  55. #55
    Yup Atomm,

    When they say 650, that is when it is running at peak. Also, you aren't using the UPS for battery, you are using it for voltage regulation, so the wattage doesn't really matter.

    Finally be somewhat careful UPS, even though electrically a Watt is defined as Watt=Volt*Amps or P=IV. UPS are rated in Volt-Amps which are not to be confused with Watts, I can explain it but well, its not worth the breath used. So comparing the big number on the side of the UPS box (which is almost always in VA) and comparing your PSU is not valid. If you look on the UPS closer you will find a rating in Watts which is smaller than VA, that compares to your PSUs number. I normally give a 15-20% slush.

  56. #56
    WATTS on UPS = 390
    WATTS on PSU = 650

    I will have my PC, LCD Monitor, Cable Modem and Router on the UPS. In addition to voltage regulation, I'd like to survive quick outages. Less than 60 seconds. That way I can play through any issues. :-) That's why I'm trying to make sure I get this right.

    I bought a Kill A Watt Meter today. I'm going to get a good idea of what my Watts are on my PC, then all 4 components during peak load. If it looks like I'm close to the 390 mark, I'll get the 450. The problem I have from there is the price about doubles to get anything close to 600.

  57. #57
    One thing I have found is buying a UPS local at a Staples or BB often is cheaper. I think because of the expense of shipping maybe the online guys inflate the price as well as the shipping.

  58. #58
    FYI, BSOD when bringing computer out of sleep mode. BSOD fly's by too fast to be able to get anything useful from it. Having to learn all about Symbols now.... Sheesh...
  59. #59
    I never sleep my computers. Sleep mode never really works 100 correctly for me. I leave my computers run 24/7. Maybe shut down the HD if you want but I never sleep the system. I do hibernate on my laptops but never sleep them.

    Lexx your 700Watt PS won't drawl 700 from the UPS. That is a max rating, not what it is actually using.

    Atomm you may need a larger UPS then man, that is a LOT for the battery to handle on one. You may kill it. Then again if the overall draw is less then you may be "okay." I think you are VERY close though. Good idea to get the meter.

    Just to re-hash, voltage is voltage and that is what you can never go over with any electronics. Voltage must match.

    Amperage or wattage rated batteries/PS's can be much larger, the device will only use what it needs. You just cannot have too little wattage. You can never have too much.
  60. #60
    My ps is 700w but its drawing about 500+w and my UPS is only 550VA. Its close. I run my monitors and other plugins, ie modem and router, etc, off of another 600VA one. The UPS upstairs was rated 400VA and actually blew out last week when I added 4 HD's to the box.

    We had a discussion on PS's here a few months ago. Any PS over 80% of actual usage was actually wasting electricy if I remember correctly. Maybe you can find it on a search of the forum.

    We're trying our best to be 'green' around here ;p


  61. #61
    You just cannot have too little wattage. You can never have too much.


    Damn that was a bad typo... "I meant to type You CAN have too little wattage. You can never have too much." On the PS side...

    This is not only untrue, but a dangerous thing to believe. Voltage can normally be allowed to vary 20% +/- or even more and not damage equipment. Amperage on the other hand needs to be close, too little or too high and you will blow things. Now a voltage that is too far out of tolerance for too long will cause troubles and variance in voltage can cause system instability, but it typically will not kill electronic components.

    I think you were trying to say that a computer is 12V and that is constant, which in theory is true, but even the best power supplies will vary from that 5%-10%


    Sorry I was not being clear I guess... Again..
    I meant what I said man. Voltage has to match your needs. You cannot plug your computer into a 220V socket and not expect it to blow up the PS. Well actually some PS can auto switch to 220 but that is a different story. 🙂 If you somehow plugged it into a 440 one it would go. Too high voltage.

    I was talking basic electronics like radios, TV's etc.... A computer PS does its own conversions to the rails but the voltage has to be -/+ 5 and -/+ 12 V where it should be. However you can put in a 1000Watt PS or a 500Watt PS and both would work as long as your system does not need more than that. If your system has a bunch of lighting and draws 700watts, you would have to have a 700 minimum PS. You could not use that 500Watt one.

    More is better with amperage so I would run a 1000Watt one in that example. Amps must be higher than the need. You would keep all voltages the same. A 500 or 1000watt PS would all put out the same voltages on the rails.

    If you have a Boom box radio that runs on batteries or a 12V external PS, you really should not run it on a 14V PS. Yes I understand that SOME equipment can tolerate more or a bit less but it is not good and not everything is as tolerant. Voltage should match.

    Amperage on the other hand needs to be close, too little or too high and you will blow things.


    Amperage has to be enough to handle the load. It does NOT have to be to little or high man.
    It cannot be too high. Only too low.


    If that Boom box requires a 1 Amp PS you MUST have at least a 1 Amp one. It can be a 2 or 3+ Amp one, but not less. A 5oo ma PS would burn out and not be able to power it.

    A device will only draw the amount of amps it needs so you can have a 600AMP battery in your car but your radio only uses say 100amps. Your radio is 12V and your battery is 12V, they must be the same. Everything runs on the 12V but can draw varying amps.

    Same with an AC TV. You must plug it into 112V-ish. yes it can vary a bit but not too high. 220 volts to a TV would kill it barring any fuses etc...

    Most homes have 12Amps to work with so you cannot plug a special vacuum into it that would draw say 16 amps, it would pop your circuit breaker. You can run one at 2 amps say.
    You will never see a home vacuum rated higher than 12 amps.

    Was that more clear???
  62. #62
    I like turtles.
  63. #63
    I Like Pie
  64. #64
    i prefer pi
  65. #65
    Sorry, I just did not want to give out misinformation. 🙂
  66. #66
    i deleted my posts, they aren't on topic.
  67. #67
    I always knew Bubba was into self mutilation.......