1 in 100 U.S. Adults Behind Bars

Started by DocJon · 7 posts · 1,318 views

  1. #1
    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/28/us/28cnd...agewanted=print

    Doesn't it make you swell with pride? I'd heard that the USA had one of the largest prison populations in the world (total and by percentage) but this article really brings it home. It's freakin' STAGGERING when you hear how it breaks down:

    Incarceration rates are even higher for some groups. One in 36 Hispanic adults is behind bars, based on Justice Department figures for 2006. One in 15 black adults is, too, as is one in nine black men between the ages of 20 and 34.


    Just. . .wow.

  2. #2
    I think that article needs to explain more than it did.

    For example, why is a DWI in Jail? Chances are, they are repeat offenders. In the short time I've lived in Texas, I've heard of some horrible accidents involving drunk drivers. In a few cases, they even killed Cops who had other people pulled over. I don't remember it being close to this bad in Oklahoma or Virginia.

    Also, what percentage of these offenders are there because of the long mandatory sentencing for drug offenders. I know someone who went to prison for manslaughter who got less time than another person I know that was charged with Intent to Distribute (Mary Jane), Possesion of a Firearm (drug related) and attempted grand theft auto.

    Yes, in both of these cases, bad things were done, but the Intent to Distribute was a personal stash that happened to be larger than the small amount considered personal. For those three items, he got 25 years. The manslaughter charge was 20.

    That makes no sense...
  3. #3
    That small stash is usually only a nites worth or a trip back to their secret stash... there's always more than just a little. I've done my share of that in the past, and all I can say is it isn't good for you or anyone remotely close to you.

    I'd like to see if you get busted with any dope, you go to jail or tell where you bought it, one or the other, right up the chain.

    So yah, I can see the years piling up for those 3 offenses. The gun has incalculable harm associated with it here, and just selling a couple of joints or pills to the wrong people could cause death. There are alot of assholes out there the law is trying to protect.

    Manslaughter rarely is anything more than a mistake or tragic accident, where the drug violators know the risk of doing that business.
  4. #4
    Saw on the news this weekend that Vermont is working on legislation that would give you the option of doing community service if you are caught with 1 ounce or less of Pot. If you take these people out of the system, that has to help quite a bit.

    At the same time, the news was saying that Vermont was one of a few states that were spending more on prisons than higher education. It has pretty much everyone irked up there and calling for significant changes.
  5. #5
    Well, I read some things last night, but I don't have the links anymore. . .it seems that while there ARE some folks in jail for relatively minor drug offenses, only something like 20% or so of inmates are incarcerated for ALL drug offenses. That 20% would encompass ppl making/selling meth, crack, etc. as well as minor busts for pot. So logically, probably much less then 10% - 15% of the prison population is there because of pot. If we were to relax the puritanical laws in that area, we could make some inroads, but there's still a long way to go if we're going to make a dent in this. Fines and community service for amounts of pot that could be harvested from a single plant sounds reasonable to me. I'm not knowledgeable about such things, never having tried pot, but I think a fairly large weight is possible from a big plant, so that change alone might generate more money in fines, and save a BUNDLE on the cost to incarcerate offenders, while keeping relatively harmless, somewhat productive members of society on the street.

    How many current prisoners were not born in America? Is there a failure there to integrate into our society, and if so, what can be done? Better education? Deportation?

    Over 50% of prisoners are there because of violent crime (according to those magic links that I no longer have 🙂 Just go with it, and I'll be open to correction if someone finds I'm incorrect). Are we not doing all we can to educate ppl on proper behavior, and the ultimate outcome of poor behavior and/or impulse control? Are we now imprisoning ppl who, 20-30 years ago would be in mental institutions, (hopefully) properly treated and kept from getting into trouble? I don't know if some of you younger guys know this, but in the mid-late 70's a lot of mental institutions were eliminated and ppl who were once found to be incapable of being on their own were put on the streets. This sort of mainstreaming continues today. Perhaps a small percentage of our population will ALWAYS be incapable of living unsupervised without causing trouble for others, and perhaps this percentage is higher than that currently under medical care.

    As for the abnormally large percentage of African Americans in jail, I'm gonna go ahead and place SOME of the blame on their subculture. Many African-Americans know this - other ppl have droned on about this endlessly, some sounding reasonable, and others sounding like they'd be more comfortable wearing a hood. The facts are this: there is a portion of the Rap music culture that glorifies behavior that will often put one on the wrong side of the law. CLEARLY, not everyone accepts this as normal behavior, but perhaps enough do that their subsequent actions put them at risk for jail.

    I hesitate to put such opinions on teh Intertubes, here for search engines to dig up for the rest of recorded history, but I grew up in government-subsidized housing: The projects. I've seen value placed on flashy, expensive jewelery, loud stereos, and fancy cars/clothes - by residents of government-subsidized housing. Those values are clearly misplaced, particularly in that setting. Since Rap came along and supported the previous misplaced values and added violence, misogyny, and drug use to the equation, it seems to me that's a whole lot of bad influence if parents, schools, and the community aren't there to explain why it might be fun to listen to, but not to live.

    Maybe we need a decent educational push in this area. Commercials by respected African-American actors, directors, musicians & athletes might help, but the teaching and adoption of basic morals and values start at home. Of course, the influence of Rap is not particularly limited to African-Americans, but I'm just trying to figure out why such a large segment of that population is in jail. Racial profiling by the police might be an influence here, but you would think if you weren't doing anything wrong, you would not end up in jail because of a random stop. . .at least not very often.

    I figure the prison population issue is a problem with many causes. It should be noted that England is having it's own prison issues, so it is not an issue uniquely our own.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7258725.stm

    Also to consider, is it REALLY so contradictory to have the highest imprisoned population in the world in a country that is billed as, "The home of the free"? We have many laws designed to keep others from encroaching on our freedoms. Sure, it SOUNDS like a crazy, Bizzarro-world contradiction, but given that we don't tolerate ppl messing with other ppl, and that we are reasonably well-organized and skilled in capturing ppl who do, I suppose this is one outcome that is to be expected.
  6. #6
    Maybe we should call ourselves "The Home of the Mostly Free" 😄

    I know that some of the criminals have mental problems that would have had them in a different kind of institution before so many were closed. A large percentage of our homeless population fits this profile as well (mental issues that is).

    I would guess that you are right Doc about the influence of rap music on some of the population, as well as the gang culture, and I am sure a large number of other things.

    I think that jail obviously isn't solving the problem for a large percentage of our criminals and we need to look at the economic and social sources. Pushing money into general education and community investment in economically down areas would be a good start. If you can educate these kids and get them ready to have respectable jobs when they are out of school, maybe that can change things.

    I read in the newspaper that NH is considering decriminalizing some drug offenses similar to what Vermont has done. 12 States have already done this and I wonder what effect it has had. IMO, pot is less hazardous to the general population than alcohol. While it occasionally may result in someone dieing, when was the last time you heard of someone getting violent after smoking weed? Of course if it was legalization would not be good for our national obesity problems 😄

  7. #7
    I say we just go back to the way jails were intended. Jails were intended as holding places until someone was punished for thier crimes. We got away from this idea in the late 1800s and made them correctional facilities. Well obviously that isnt working so it's time to go back to real punishment. Rape someone, bam castration easy as pie. Murder, well the law of the land is still that you are to be put to death for this most heinous crime, only in the last 30-40 years have we gotten into this sytem of 6000 appeals leading to life sentences. Let's put a fast track back on getting rid of these offenders. I promise you this will cut down on repeat offender and hopefully stamp out the whole subculture of America that is prison. I mean for god's sake people run thier businesses from prison now, be it Martha Stewart or some scumbag A.B.M.er