Baseball Draft - Congrats to the Pittsburgh Pirates

On this auspicious day, I want to congratulate the Pittsburgh Pirates on drafting Clemson lefty Daniel Moskos with the FOURTH overall pick. Projected as a middle-reliever, I'm sure he will be every bit the impact player everyone wants from a first-round pick. I can hardly wait for the glorious day he's brought up to the major-league team. The very thought of him attempting to hold a lead for an inning or two, or dominating in mop-up duty, sends shivers down this baseball fan's spine.

O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!

Well-played, Pittsburgh Pirates management! 🤦

The things I read about him weren't so bad. Projected as best middle reliever/closer in the draft. Sounds like he could also be a starter with some work. On the other hand, given the Pirate's record on draft picks with pitchers the last 8 years, I'd have to say 🤔

Sarge wrote:
The things I read about him weren't so bad. Projected as best middle reliever/closer in the draft. Sounds like he could also be a starter with some work. On the other hand, given the Pirate's record on draft picks with pitchers the last 8 years, I'd have to say 🤔

Like six of our last eight #1 picks have needed Tommy-John surgery before they put in a full year of MLB duty. AND WHO THE HELL DRAFTS RELIEVERS? We need offense. Even if you're drafting a pitcher, dont' draft one that projects as a reliever with a#4 overall pick!

Here's a replacement for our Monkey Kickball. The guy is Pirate's GM David Littlefield.

http://www.pictogame.com/game.php?game=BJj8OKm74XcE

56188 meters. Definitely farther than the monkey ball.

Sarge wrote:
56188 meters. Definitely farther than the monkey ball.

🙂

73204 on my first kick.... I can tell all that time playing Monkey Ball is starting to pay off.....

And remember Doc, when they pitch more than half the game, they aren't called Starters, they are called Second Starter..... :-)

It was funny in my head..... Then again, it's dark and mold, so anything with a twinge of humor outshines the rest of my mind..... :-)

Atomm wrote:
73204 on my first kick.... I can tell all that time playing Monkey Ball is starting to pay off.....

And remember Doc, when they pitch more than half the game, they aren't called Starters, they are called Second Starter..... :-)

It was funny in my head..... Then again, it's dark and mold, so anything with a twinge of humor outshines the rest of my mind..... :-)

Well, he may come in handy then. The guy who has been our opening day starter the past 2 years is about ready to go back down to triple-A.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/7512/gamelog

When you're in a 14-year-long losing streak, and the minors are bare except for a handful of pitchers that MIGHT work out in triple-A, and you come close to being no-hit twice a week by no-name pitchers, you're making a mistake in drafting a guy who's projected as a relief pitcher as a #4 overall pick. CLOSER is not the main problem in this situation. A little assist in controlling the game before the closer is needed might come in handy.

The Pirate beat writer is being swamped by Pirate fans, and he doesn't have a clue why the Pirates would draft this guy.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pirates/questions/

This guy calls the picks what it is: a move to avoid paying for a GOOD pick.
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburgh...s/s_511615.html

I was just about to say that Doc.... It really seems like they just don't care as long as they can keep expenses down....

Baseball overall has become a sad situation in economics.... I bet the Pirates are making money from the clubs that are overspending while they stay under the cap. I thought I had read something about a parity rule where the teams that spend big bucks had to send money to the teams that didn't.

There was a luxury tax on salaries over a certain size but I think that it expired at the end of last year. Only three teams ever paid it - The Yankees, the Red Sox, and the Angels and the money went into a common pot for "improving competition" although I don't know exactly what that entails. It clearly didn't do much to deter some teams spending and it didn't boost other teams spending either.

Baseball needs to look for a middle ground. A salary cap/tax should be on teams that spend both over a maximum limit and under a minimum limit. This ensures that there is a certain minimum amount of spending for the players but may actually spread the wealth a bit and raise up those perennial cellar-dwellers.

Of course that would be bad for my Sox but it would be even worse for the Yankees so there is a silver lining there.

all i gotta say and im sure sarge will agree is....RedSox 38-21 , Yankees 27-31, im happy as long as steinbrenner is pulling his hair out hehe, nothin but respect for any other team including the hard workin pirates.


o and 96234 meters was my kick 🙂

I WISH I could say it had to do with the "Haves" and the "Have-nots". To a certain degree, it does, but that's not the whole answer. The Pirates COULD spend probably 20 million more than they do, if you compare them to other small-market teams - but they don't. It's become apparent that they are just pocketing large sums of money, and are content to run out a mediocre team as long as they can do that and still rake in the cash. A salary minimum, and a salary cap, would go a long ways in forcing franchisesto field competitive teams.

Also, if a team can't, or won't, spend enough to be competitive, then they have to spend more wisely than others. This also has not been the case. The owners aren't long-time baseball people, but newspaper/magazine magnates whose first connection with baseball was when they bought the Pirates in the late 90's. They hired a GM who hasn't been smart about draft picks, free-agent signings, trades, or finding players in Latin America - one of the richest talent pools left, and also one in which a small-market team can actually AFFORD to compete in. It's a miscalculation of gargantuan proportions for a small-market team to fail in this area. Baseball is still very popular in this area, unlike with our own youth here in the USA, and so the talent pool is relatively larger. The poverty level in Latin America makes it economical to set up facilities and to sign even the best talent in this area, and yet, they've failed here also.

One of the Pirates' pitchers, Salomon Torres, has his own training facilities set up in the Dominican Republic, and has talked with the Pirates many times about working with them to scout, train, and sign players thru these facilities, but had no luck. He currently rents them to the Texas and Atlanta teams.

http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=205691

The Pirates have their own facilities, but they are ramshackle and run-down. How bad do they have to be to be considered run-down in a third-world country? They are now TALKING about improving their Dominican facilities, but damn, that's 10-years too late. With the long tradition the Pirates had with Latin American players (like Roberto Clemente), Latin players DREAM about playing for the Pirates - many have said so. We could do well in this arena, but management screwed this as well.

This was a lot longer than I thought it would be. Thanks for humoring a grumpy fan of a poorly run franchise. 🙂 You guys probably aren't really all that into baseball. Most people aren't these days.

I have to hold myself back from baseball at this time of year as I get burnt out if I start paying too much attention too early. I usually start to really pay attention after the all star break. I can then put my heart behind the Sox without killing myself 🙂 This year it's been hard not to pay attention as they have generally been playing so well but not having NESN (the regional sports network) has really helped as I have watched all of two games so far this year - both last weekend.

And I'm with you Kenny - As long as the Yankees are struggling I'm happy 😀

Go Steelers! 😉

Doc, I use to love baseball, but the last few strikes just turned me off and I never came back. It's been fun to read this post and if nothing else, it makes me want to see if I can attend a Rangers game.

Considering I have only been to Triple A games, it might be fun to attend the big leagues.

OT: As a kid, my parents took me to a Triple A game on July 4th. At that game was a young player named Ryne Sandburg. Years latter, I would get to see Jose Canseco play, err, bat (DH) when he was recovering on the DL. A few years latter, it was Juan Gonzales. OKC's Triple A has always been lucky to be part of good franchises. As a kid, it was the Cubs, but the last 20+ years, it's been the Rangers.

wow i remember sandburg , yea my father used to do the same thing with me and my brother , yea baseball players are greedy , they are playing a game for too much money that they dont need , but that can be said about any US sport , throw so much money at them and the love for the game goes away and it becomes a job to them , well , most i cant speak for them all. but i will allways feel nostalgic (hope i spelled it right) about watchin the sox win and the yankees lose , because , my father ........was a yankees fan....... im so ashamed, but it was good to let that out.....:-p anyways there will allways be that thrill for alot of folks at cheering for their home team and having a sense of pride if even very little if they win a game or lose , unfortunately us sox fans end up booing another turncoat player when george steinbrenner takes out his wallet and waves it in one of our boys faces , everybody has their price , all started with the babe :-p

Yeha I am like Atomm, never recovered from the greed. I think just after one fo the strikes was when the Phillies (Kruk and all) were popular and I realized these guys aren't even athletes anymore and they whine about making millions... I just never came back. I used to have a minor league team in the town next door. My best friends grandmother used to house the players. I knew alot of them.

Once got to play ball with Mark Grace, Palmero, and a handful of the others on that team.

Of course all the guys I knew real well never made it too far. most made it to a few games in the bigs.

A1DS wrote:
wow i remember sandburg , yea my father used to do the same thing with me and my brother , yea baseball players are greedy , they are playing a game for too much money that they dont need , but that can be said about any US sport , throw so much money at them and the love for the game goes away and it becomes a job to them , well , most i cant speak for them all. but i will allways feel nostalgic (hope i spelled it right) about watchin the sox win and the yankees lose , because , my father ........was a yankees fan....... im so ashamed, but it was good to let that out.....:-p anyways there will allways be that thrill for alot of folks at cheering for their home team and having a sense of pride if even very little if they win a game or lose , unfortunately us sox fans end up booing another turncoat player when george steinbrenner takes out his wallet and waves it in one of our boys faces , everybody has their price , all started with the babe :-p

Just for reference you are supposed to capitalize "I" 🙂
How old are you BTW?

A1DS wrote:
wow i remember sandburg , yea my father used to do the same thing with me and my brother , yea baseball players are greedy , they are playing a game for too much money that they dont need , but that can be said about any US sport , throw so much money at them and the love for the game goes away and it becomes a job to them , well , most i cant speak for them all. but i will allways feel nostalgic (hope i spelled it right) about watchin the sox win and the yankees lose , because , my father ........was a yankees fan....... im so ashamed, but it was good to let that out.....:-p anyways there will allways be that thrill for alot of folks at cheering for their home team and having a sense of pride if even very little if they win a game or lose , unfortunately us sox fans end up booing another turncoat player when george steinbrenner takes out his wallet and waves it in one of our boys faces , everybody has their price , all started with the babe :-p

Hell, to give them credit, the Yanks have a proud tradition. . .it's only the Steinbrenner era where things got really crazy, and they threw outrageous sums of money out to win the Series. It's only natural that other teams would hate them, with the way they imbalanced the game and stole the best players away, and made it difficult for the small market teams to compete for/keep talent. I can't fault your father for being a fan. . .I'm glad YOU'RE not, though 🙂

I was in Boston in the late 80's, my friends and I walked past Fenway, but we didn't go in. I almost got sent to Boston in the late 90's to train some folks when I worked at Mellon Bank. I was REALLY hoping they'd do that, so I could go catch a game or 2. The company cheaped-out tho. 🙁

Bubbaspanky wrote:
Yeha I am like Atomm, never recovered from the greed. I think just after one fo the strikes was when the Phillies (Kruk and all) were popular and I realized these guys aren't even athletes anymore and they whine about making millions... I just never came back. I used to have a minor league team in the town next door. My best friends grandmother used to house the players. I knew alot of them.

Once got to play ball with Mark Grace, Palmero, and a handful of the others on that team.

Of course all the guys I knew real well never made it too far. most made it to a few games in the bigs.

Atomm wrote:
Doc, I use to love baseball, but the last few strikes just turned me off and I never came back. It's been fun to read this post and if nothing else, it makes me want to see if I can attend a Rangers game.

Considering I have only been to Triple A games, it might be fun to attend the big leagues.

OT: As a kid, my parents took me to a Triple A game on July 4th. At that game was a young player named Ryne Sandburg. Years latter, I would get to see Jose Canseco play, err, bat (DH) when he was recovering on the DL. A few years latter, it was Juan Gonzales. OKC's Triple A has always been lucky to be part of good franchises. As a kid, it was the Cubs, but the last 20+ years, it's been the Rangers.

The Rangers are a GOOD team? 😀

Baseball's a damn silly thing to follow. 50-100 years ago, when everyone was born and died in the same town and there wasn't much to do in-between, I guess it made more sense. Really tho, with so much info at our fingertips, and easy access to high-speed travel, there are many, MANY better things to spend your time doing. . .learn a skill, learn a musical instrument, travel, read and discuss history, tech, great literary works, etc. Baseball's a great diversion, but I think you guys have it right. Check out a game once in awhile for the experience, but to get too involved with it doesn't make sense.

Bubba, that's pretty cool that you had the chance to play with those guys.

Well, for the record, I grew up a Yankee's fan, but that is because I read a lot about Babe Ruth and the Yankee's of the 50's. I was also a Mattingly fan back in the 80's. Back then, things were just starting to go nuts. I even remember reading an article in Sports Illustrated in Jr. High about the first Million dollar a year player and how quickly it escalated once that barrier was broken.

Paladin, I really meant the solid Talent they had during the years when I paid attention, not to mention Nolan Ryan coming back to the Rangers to get his 5,000th strike out and 300th win.

Also, in the 90's they were a decent team. In 94, they led the AL West when the strike canceled the rest of the season. In 96, they won the AL West only to loose to the Yankee's in the AL championship. Again, they led the AL West in 98 and 99.

It would be a sad coincidence that this is also the same time the AL East Yankee's started putting things together, dominating from 94-2000.

From Wikipedia: "After winning the Eastern division and defeating the Texas Rangers for the third time in the 1999 American League Division Series."

Sheesh, their best years and they had to go up against some of the most winning Yankee Teams ever.

So, I guess it's all relative....

As for acquiring Red Sox players, I had stopped paying attention to anything baseball, then one day I was flipping the channels and stopped to watch one of the play off games and who do I see in a Yankee Uniform, but Wade Boggs. That blew me away. I never expected to see that.....

Atomm wrote:
Paladin, I really meant the solid Talent they had during the years when I paid attention, not to mention Nolan Ryan coming back to the Rangers to get his 5,000th strike out and 300th win.

Bla bla bla bla paladin bla bla bla..

😉

Sorry man I do not really follow baseball. Not since the early 80's really. I am very out of touch on it. Doc is my offline baseball storage. 😉

Now when football season comes along I am more interested but I admit I do not follow the other teams that much. I mainly watch, and really love, the Steelers games. That is about all of my sports interests.

Except for the Steelers games I would rather watch the Discovery Channel than others teams games or any other sports 😉

Atomm wrote:
Well, for the record, I grew up a Yankee's fan, but that is because I read a lot about Babe Ruth and the Yankee's of the 50's. I was also a Mattingly fan back in the 80's. Back then, things were just starting to go nuts. I even remember reading an article in Sports Illustrated in Jr. High about the first Million dollar a year player and how quickly it escalated once that barrier was broken.

Paladin, I really meant the solid Talent they had during the years when I paid attention, not to mention Nolan Ryan coming back to the Rangers to get his 5,000th strike out and 300th win.

Also, in the 90's they were a decent team. In 94, they led the AL West when the strike canceled the rest of the season. In 96, they won the AL West only to loose to the Yankee's in the AL championship. Again, they led the AL West in 98 and 99.

It would be a sad coincidence that this is also the same time the AL East Yankee's started putting things together, dominating from 94-2000.

From Wikipedia: "After winning the Eastern division and defeating the Texas Rangers for the third time in the 1999 American League Division Series."

Sheesh, their best years and they had to go up against some of the most winning Yankee Teams ever.

So, I guess it's all relative....

As for acquiring Red Sox players, I had stopped paying attention to anything baseball, then one day I was flipping the channels and stopped to watch one of the play off games and who do I see in a Yankee Uniform, but Wade Boggs. That blew me away. I never expected to see that.....

Sorry, I missed this the first time.

The Rangers/Yankees in the late 90's reminds me of the Pirate's/Braves in the early 90's. Smoltz, Glavine, Maddux, The Joneses. . .grrr. That was when Ted Turner threw money at the Braves like Steinbrenner, and a non-juiced Barry Bonds could not do enough to compensate.

Pirates & Rangers have a series starting tonight. Sort of baseball's version of a sissy slap-fight.

Hey Doc. Heard today on the radio that the Pgh fans are going to have a walkout this Sat. Its really got the Pirates pissed off. They've banned cameras and reporters from the field, and the pirate radio station is staying mum about it.

Supposed to happen either the 3rd or 7th inning to show the organization that fans are pissed that the pirates are the 3rd highest earning team, with the worst winning record. (remember that promise 5yrs back, build us a statium and we will win ) Attendance this year hasn't come close to breaking the record set by the 3 rivers stadium. Imagine that.

ESPN won't report it either because thier in some kinda partership with the pirates. Amazing how they think they can keep something like this bottled up. This was all over talkradio AM today, and its picking up steam.

You leave Pittsburgh and your team falls to crap 🙂

lexx wrote:
Hey Doc. Heard today on the radio that the Pgh fans are going to have a walkout this Sat. Its really got the Pirates pissed off. They've banned cameras and reporters from the field, and the pirate radio station is staying mum about it.

Supposed to happen either the 3rd or 7th inning to show the organization that fans are pissed that the pirates are the 3rd highest earning team, with the worst winning record. (remember that promise 5yrs back, build us a statium and we will win ) Attendance this year hasn't come close to breaking the record set by the 3 rivers stadium. Imagine that.

ESPN won't report it either because thier in some kinda partership with the pirates. Amazing how they think they can keep something like this bottled up. This was all over talkradio AM today, and its picking up steam.

You leave Pittsburgh and your team falls to crap 🙂

Don't blame me for this, they haven't had a winning season since 1992!

I hope there's a good response to this - it would be great if the stands emptied out. The thing is, if your sports team is bought by people who have no desire to do anything to make it a winner, there is little fans can do. I'm sure people read this and think it's hyperbole, but I could bore you in exquisite detail why it's not. They give out bobble-heads, show fireworks, and promote the "Ballpark Experience". They do that because it's hard to promote a LOSING experience.

http://www.iratefans.com/

This is actually lame though. They are going to wear green shirts and get up and not leave the game but all go to the concession stands. Oh wow lets all go buy some beer that will show them! If they REALLY want to make an impact they need to not buy tickets in the first place!

Lexx I heard on the radio yesterday that the Pirates were selling so many season passes they actually capped it at 13,000 or something. I am unsure why you would do that myself. Supposedly they are doing really well ticket wise even though the team sucks. This is what they said on the radio so take that for what it is worth. I have not checked into it further.

They need to pick a home game and get everyone to not purchase tickets. If already have them, not show up. Seriously if they had an empty stadium for a game it would sent a very strong message.

Well I swiched to AM yesterday cause 104.7 was airing a pirate game which I detest anyways. Hansburger was saying the opposite of what the pirates were playing to thier media machine. According to the callers yesterday you can't trust 104.7 as they are pirate employees.

I heard green shirts and they were going to leave the ballpark. I'd think a boycott would be smarter but they say they wanted to make a statement in front of the cameras, which its also being said are controlled by the pirates.

Will have to wait and see what happens Sat and how its talked about Monday. Theres also resentment that the piratesa and steelers have filed a lawsuit against the casino on the north shore over a traffic study. The taxpayers supported these clowns in full, yet they want to block the guy thats paying for everything on his dime.

Pittsburgh's democratic machine in its finest hour.

Paladin wrote:
This is actually lame though. They are going to wear green shirts and get up and not leave the game but all go to the concession stands. Oh wow lets all go buy some beer that will show them! If they REALLY want to make an impact they need to not buy tickets in the first place!

Lexx I heard on the radio yesterday that the Pirates were selling so many season passes they actually capped it at 13,000 or something. I am unsure why you would do that myself. Supposedly they are doing really well ticket wise even though the team sucks. This is what they said on the radio so take that for what it is worth. I have not checked into it further.

They need to pick a home game and get everyone to not purchase tickets. If already have them, not show up. Seriously if they had an empty stadium for a game it would sent a very strong message.

It IS a stupid statement. It IS a stupid protest. It's ill-conceived. No one I know is responsible for this, fortunately, but many ppl are discussing it quite a bit. The message boards have been filled with people bitterly complaining , It's stupid.", and other people saying, "But it's a start."

lexx wrote:
Well I swiched to AM yesterday cause 104.7 was airing a pirate game which I detest anyways. Hansburger was saying the opposite of what the pirates were playing to thier media machine. According to the callers yesterday you can't trust 104.7 as they are pirate employees.

I heard green shirts and they were going to leave the ballpark. I'd think a boycott would be smarter but they say they wanted to make a statement in front of the cameras, which its also being said are controlled by the pirates.

Will have to wait and see what happens Sat and how its talked about Monday. Theres also resentment that the pirates and steelers have filed a lawsuit against the casino on the north shore over a traffic study. The taxpayers supported these clowns in full, yet they want to block the guy thats paying for everything on his dime.

Pittsburgh's democratic machine in its finest hour.

BTW, The Pirates announcers have been told not to say anything about it during the game, and Fox Sports won't cover it or show it on camera during the game. No surprise. Don't believe the Pirates radio station in anything they say regarding this, either.

Links related to June 30th protest
http://www.timesonline.com/site/news.cfm?n...78568&rfi=6
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07179/797796-194.stm
http://www.iratefans.com/Thoughts/charlie_...he_protest.html
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07175/796758-194.stm

Other Pirate links
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburgh...e/s_514378.html
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07171/795567-194.stm

Draft-related
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburgh...s/s_511969.html
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburgh...s/s_511615.html

lexx wrote:
Well I swiched to AM yesterday cause 104.7 was airing a pirate game which I detest anyways. Hansburger was saying the opposite of what the pirates were playing to thier media machine. According to the c

Try "The man Station" 103.7. Dennis Miller's show is from 10-1PM. It is better than I thought it was going to be to be honest. I listen to Beck from 10-12 then change over for the last hour of DM.

BTW I was wrong. I heard that radio report again. it was the Penguins, not the Pirates that they capped the season passes at 13,000. makes better sense to me now 😉

Doc you are right I guess it is better to cause SOME kind of stir than nothing at all. With all the press it is getting, the owners at least are aware of it.

All this talk about sports radio and pittsburgh... reminds me of my days as a devoted Papa Joe Chevalier listener. he had a nationally sydicated show, but he was a huge Pittsburgh fan as I recall. Any of you guy listen to him?? I haven't been able to find him on in years

Paladin wrote:
Try "The man Station" 103.7. Dennis Miller's show is from 10-1PM. It is better than I thought it was going to be to be honest. I listen to Beck from 10-12 then change over for the last hour of DM.

BTW I was wrong. I heard that radio report again. it was the Penguins, not the Pirates that they capped the season passes at 13,000. makes better sense to me now 😉

Cool, I'll look into that this week. Miller is a conservative, but he might be better than Beck.

Sorry Bubba, I dont' ever listen to sports talk radio anymore. LOUD and FAST talking hosts that are trying to show enthusiam for the pirates or steelers got on my nerves years ago. I really don't care how much so and so is making per ball scratch while the rest of us are paying 1% more sales tax to buy his stadium.

Any day tho, I listen to talk radio shows to see what issues america is talking about. This week talk shows knocked out the amnesty for illegels in the immigration bill. Now Hillary wants to put the fairness doctrine back in place, lol. I guess last week Ann Colter foamed at the mouth again at Edwards, which he is cashing into campaign donations 🙂

Anyways, I'd been turned off Pgh baseball ever since they built the stadiums even tho the taxpayers voted no on all the resolutions. The demomachine has its say anyways. I'm really starting to hate this place.

Sorry Bubba, never heard of the gentleman.

This protest is gathering steam. Dock Ellis is going to speak from a stage on Federal Street between 5:00 and 7:00 pm today about the protest, and he is reaching out to some of his other 1971 World series championship teammates about it. I'll post a link when I find one.


Here's one from USA Today:
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/20...010665615_x.htm

Here are comments from the horses ass: Bob Nutting, principal owner (along with his dad, Montgomery Burns):
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburgh...g/s_515129.html

lexx wrote:
Cool, I'll look into that this week. Miller is a conservative, but he might be better than Beck.

Beck is great man, what is not to like? He is one of the most neutral talk show hosts out there. He just speaks the truth good or bad for either party and lays it out as it is. Except the religious side, which he does not "push" I agree with him more than most.

Also he is very interesting and entertaining to listen to. Have you ever watched his TV show? Give him a chance at least man. I always try to.

Then again you like Rush, whom I do not care for. he is too pushy and boring for me 😉

Anyway lets stay on topic here, sorry....

I wonder how my cousin feels about working for such a shi&&y company like the Pirates. Then again he does not care as long as he gets a pay check I am sure. 😉

I"ve listened to Beck for years off/on or as needed. A couple of years ago I got tired of his sound effects that early in the morning. They don't help or aid the show imo. Topic wise, he covers things well for the most part. Only seen a few mins of his TV show as I absolutely do not ever go near CNN for any reason. Actually I had my cable disconnected 2 weeks ago as I dont' watch TV anymore period, plus the kids got an 'E' on report cards 😛

Yah, I still put Rush #1 on a daily basis. I think he keeps things fresh enough and I appreciate the conservative touch. Unlike Hannity, Rush doesn't just spout the republican talking points. That drives me nuts about Hannity.

When your 12yr old daughter starts spouting liberal talking points like 'Bush is a murderer' and 'omg, global warming is killing us', then its time to kill the messenger 🙂

AAAnnnnnd this thread is derailed.

I'm reclaiming this thread in the name of what remains of Pittsburgh baseball!

The walkout was lame. Maybe a thousand did it out of 27,000. I had hoped for more, with the fairly large media coverage, but hell, the people have to be sheep to allow things to get this bad, why would they stand up now?

Still, it WAS a success because of all the coverage. The press has been more and more negative in the past year, and since the walkout was announced, it's been SCATHING. Maybe in another year or 2, the fans will actually get tired of this. Sigh.

http://www.heraldstandard.com/site/news.cf...68632&rfi=6

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07183/798676-194.stm

http://www.heraldstandard.com/site/news.cf...68632&rfi=6

It's awful that it's gotten to that point in Pittsburgh. I'm sure that there are a few other teams around the leagues that are in a similar situation as well. We had the 90's where the Yawkey Trust and Dan Duquette ran the team and seemed to drive/trade/give away our best talent. Fortunately the team was purchased by people committed to spending money to beat the Yankees, er...I mean win the world series.

lexx wrote:
http://www.post-gazette.com//pg/07183/798657-294.stm

I missed that one, thanks!

Sarge wrote:
It's awful that it's gotten to that point in Pittsburgh. I'm sure that there are a few other teams around the leagues that are in a similar situation as well. We had the 90's where the Yawkey Trust and Dan Duquette ran the team and seemed to drive/trade/give away our best talent. Fortunately the team was purchased by people committed to spending money to beat the Yankees, er...I mean win the world series.

The commissioner should be on the backs of teams that aren't trying to improve, or who have been losing for too long without legit hope for the near future. There's no other mechanism to keep the teams honest.

2006 Top 4 Team Salaries
Yankees = $ 189,639,045
Red Sox = $ 143,026,214
Mets = $ 115,231,663
Angels = $ 109,251,333


2006 Bottom 4 Team Salaries
Pirates =$ 38,537,833
Nationals =$ 37,347,500
Marlins =$ 30,507,000
Devil Rays =$ 24,123,500

Mismanagement is Pittsburgh's main problem, but there are more problems than that. What do you do when the teams rely on each other for their business (need other teams to play!), but a handful has so much more money to spend? No one wants to say, "take all profits and split them evenly", certainly not me. . .but how do you even the playing field when a couple teams can spend 2-4x what many others can spend? Even if the Pirates spent what they honestly could afford, it wouldn't be very close to $100 million.

What does the NFL do with their TV money?

I think that the NFL shares the profits that they have pretty evenly. Combine that with salary caps and you get parity in that most teams are spending (and can afford to spend) near the limit and have to make choices about who to have on the team to stay under the cap.

The big issue that I see could happen with the Pirates (and many other teams as well), is that what does doubling your team salary expenditures buy you? One all-star caliber player? Two? A lot of the big name talent is tied up on just a few teams making it difficult to compete. The Sox are spending $140 million just to try and keep up with the Yankees which if it can be done, means you've passed most everyone else (most years). And the Yankees spend $180 million to try and outpace the Sox. If the Sox and the Yankees were in different leagues or even divisions, they wouldn't feel the "need" to spend quite so much.

My solution: Put the Yankees in the National League and send the Mets to the AL 😛 The Mets owners can't be crazy enough to spend nearly $200 million keeping up with the Sox so we will rule them all Muhaaaaahahahahaha!

Sarge wrote:
I think that the NFL shares the profits that they have pretty evenly. Combine that with salary caps and you get parity in that most teams are spending (and can afford to spend) near the limit and have to make choices about who to have on the team to stay under the cap.

The big issue that I see could happen with the Pirates (and many other teams as well), is that what does doubling your team salary expenditures buy you? One all-star caliber player? Two? A lot of the big name talent is tied up on just a few teams making it difficult to compete. The Sox are spending $140 million just to try and keep up with the Yankees which if it can be done, means you've passed most everyone else (most years). And the Yankees spend $180 million to try and outpace the Sox. If the Sox and the Yankees were in different leagues or even divisions, they wouldn't feel the "need" to spend quite so much.

Hmmm. . .or would they, just so they could have what they need when they inevitably meet in the series? I guarantee the Yanks will have a DH, even if they play in the NL! He'll sit on the bench and make 1 appearance every NL game when the pitcher is pulled, just so they have a great PH, and a DH for inter-league & Series play.

Baseball needs to look at the NFL profit-sharing and caps. It seems most every competently run team has a good shot every year, and no one loads up on all the best free-agents due to the cap.

Here's a fun story. The Pittsburgh sports media are pointing fingers at each other and saying everyone else is biased. 🙂

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07184/798836-194.stm

Important baseball story from The Onion:
http://www.theonion.com/content/news_brief...nother_baseball

😀

DocJon wrote:
Important baseball story from The Onion:
http://www.theonion.com/content/news_brief...nother_baseball

😀

🤣

The Barry Bonds story was a good one as well 😄

Paladin wrote:
Try "The man Station" 103.7. Dennis Miller's show is from 10-1PM. It is better than I thought it was going to

Oh good grief man, that is that crappy ass froggy country station. Listening to that shit would make you wanta do suicide.

Can't miller land a decent affilitation??

Sarge wrote:
🤣

The Barry Bonds story was a good one as well 😄

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/46188

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/48895

🙂

lexx wrote:
Oh good grief man, that is that crappy ass froggy country station. Listening to that shit would make you wanta do suicide.

Can't miller land a decent affilitation??

Actually it is a new station man. No country music, it is talk 24/7 now.

Now the Pirates have a player filing grievance against them:
http://www.timesonline.com/site/news.cfm?n...78568&rfi=6

You guys should thank me for this stuff. You probably never knew how well your teams were run!

I am on the pirates mailing list. I just got this today.
===================================
FROM THE DESK OF KEVIN McCLATCHY

Dear Pirates Fan:


Kevin McClatchy
Today I announced that I will be stepping down as the Chief Executive Officer of the Pittsburgh Pirates at the end of the 2007 season.

A decision of this personal and professional magnitude is not something you make overnight. It was something Bob Nutting and I have discussed even before the change of control took place in January and something I decided upon a few months ago. It is a difficult decision, but I felt the time was right to step down as the day-to-day leader of this franchise so the organization can move forward with a fresh leadership perspective.

I will remain as the active leader of the organization until the end of the season.
This will give the organization an opportunity to conduct a thorough search to find
my successor and ensure a smooth transition into the next chapter of Pirates history.

I have worked hard for more than 11 years in the best interests of the Pittsburgh Pirates, our fans and the community and will continue to do so. Nobody within the organization has given up on this season. I have confidence in this team. We have played better recently and remain focused on having a strong second half.

Thank you for your continued support of the Pittsburgh Pirates. I hope to see you at PNC Park during the second half of the season.

Sincerely,

Kevin McClatchy
Chief Executive Officer
Pittsburgh Pirates

Pirates' McClatchy to step down as CEO later this year

It's a start. Let's hope the new guy is better, and fires our GM. I have a really bad feeling, though, our GM will get promoted to CEO. It's just how they roll. I'd much rather a new CEO come in and replace the GM with a new guy. We need baseball people who can swing deals and properly evaluate talent, not middle-management from the business world.

If they actually promote the GM I will see there's no end in sight and give up entirely on the Pirates. I actually hope that happens. After 15 years of little hope, at least a honkin' big statement of "screw you" will exorcise the remaining hope and fans can move on.

Here's an interesting comment from a player who was previously in the Pirates organization, CJ Nitkowski, talking to Rob Nayer at ESPN. It's in the comments section, but I'll also copy & paste it below.

http://myespn.go.com/conversation/story?id=2926264

CNitkowski35 (7/5/2007 at 12:38 PM)
Are you baiting me here Rob?....Unfortunately Dave has a bad reputation
among players as well. Before I joined their organization I had heard a lot
of bad things about not being able to trust the general manager there. I am
an open minded guy and always give someone the benefit of the doubt
regardless of what others say about him/her.....They weren't wrong....At the
end of the 2006 season I wrote Dave a letter and bullet pointed 10 things he
lied to me about since I signed with the Pirates the previous off-season. I
titled it "fallacious list"....I looked back at it recently and got a good a
laugh, unfortunately all 10 of my points were 100% accurate, that part
wasn't funny....This Torres mess is really bad PR and may do Dave in.....My
intention is not to take a shot at Dave, he's got a tough gig trying to get
it done in Pittsburgh, but I don't believe the Twins and A's are an
aberration.....There are just some guys that are better at managing smaller
payrolls than others and I do believe luck (regarding health of players)
plays a small role.....I like Jim Tracy....He is a people person who loves
his players, kind of the opposite of his general manager.....I think they
are close to turning the corner with some of those good young pitchers,
unfortunately the corner means getting over .500. With the right added
pieces they may be able to make a run at the division in 2-4 years

Here's a story about Dock Ellis, a pitcher for the Pirates in the 70's. An interesting, sometimes hated figure, he once threw a no-hitter under the influence of LSD, and on another occasion, started a game with the intention of beaning EVERY PLAYER HE FACED. This last bit was foiled by the #4 hitter diving out of the way of his pitches, and Ellis' manager subsequently pulling him in the first inning, after having recorded no outs. 😀

http://www.dallasobserver.com/2005-06-16/news/balls-out/

Heh, that Dock Ellis bit above where he intended to bean EVERYONE still cracks me up. Probably didn't thrill his manager though, when he had to pull his starting pitcher in the 1st inning with no outs. . .

Here's a little story about a journeyman player who had a moment in the sun - a walk-off, 10th inning home-run to win a combined no-hitter for Francisco Cordova and Ricardo Rincon. I wanted to get all their autographs on a baseball, but Rincon got traded before I could get it - for Brian Giles, so I can't complain too much 🙂

I DID manage to get this guy's autograph though 👍 🎉

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburgh...s/s_516248.html

That Dock Ellis guy seems like he was pretty crazy. Imagine if he tried that beaning stuff today? He'd be out of the game and suspended for a month after the first inning 😀

Up here, we of course have Bill "Spaceman" Lee who had his own exploits.

The Pirates are so bad that instead of yelling "Play Ball" The umpires now yell "Attempt to play ball!"

Paladin wrote:
The Pirates are so bad that instead of yelling "Play Ball" The umpires now yell "Attempt to play ball!"

I used to take wiffey to 3 or 4 games each year. Wasn't much fun after I quit drinking tho. I can NEVER ever remember seeing them win even once. I had another friend that used to come to pgh in the 90's and I'd also drag along with him to double headers.

I'd just be sitting there getting smashed, whilst right beside me would be the avid pirate fan with his notepad keeping track of baseball stats 🙂

I never was a big baseball stat fan either 🙁

Doc it could be worse. You could be a Phillies fan...

Philies first team to 10,000 loses

Sarge wrote:
Doc it could be worse. You could be a Phillies fan...

Philies first team to 10,000 loses

I saw this elsewhere - OWCH!

It COULD be worse. Instead, this year the Pirates are only going to tie the Phillies consecutive losing season streak at 15. 🙂

I read about their bad times in the 30's. Iif not for one season of 78-76 (I think, 154 game season), they'd have a number of consecutive losing seasons numbering in the high 20's!!! They were so bad, and the owner so inept, he eventually just GAVE the team back to the league!

Here's a short post from a msg board I read. This guy's usually very reliable, but must've been in a hurry this morning, as he posted about 5 sentence parts using the punctuation of 1. 🙂

. . .the Pirates started in 1882 in the American Association(AA) and the Phillies started in 1883. The difference is that when the Pirates won their 9000 games a few years back they weren't counting AA games so technically they really started in 1887 so their record current stands at 9360-9046 as per major leagues baseball's current interpretation of records.In all likelihood the Pirates will be the 4th organization to 10,000 losses after the Braves and the Cubs.

Good times for the Buccos!

6 straight losses since the all-star break.

The PITCHING COACH goes off on the shortstop between innings in a game where the starting pitcher gives up 9 runs while retiring just 6 batters. You would think he had more worries than the shortstop.

Today (Wednesday) the Bucs lost 5-3 and the starting pitcher is saying the Rockies stole our signs.

One of our players just told me that that somebody was getting the signals," he said. "Hopefully, I won't pitch in Colorado because I know who it is, and I will get them."

Here's a Q&A with the Pirate beat writer (KOVACEVIC):

Q: Now that the 2007 MLB season is over for the PBC (Bay strikes out), do you think the Penguins (Davis gets picked off) should be considered a favorite in the Eastern Conference (Hawpe homers) next season (Helton homers)?

David Wallowicz of West Chester

KOVACEVIC: I think (LaRoche strikes out) that it is way too early (Davis goes right back into the field with no threat of being benched ) to engage in such negative talk (Francis becomes latest to pitch without a bead of sweat).

I've been a Pirate fan, a real fan, since 1989.

In '89 to '93, I looked forward to seeing if the Bucs could make the playoffs.

In the mid 90's, I enjoyed watching the young guys come up through the system and watching them develop, while worrying they Pirates would leave town.

Late 90's - New owners, new rebuilding phase. Promise of a great new stadium and the money to compete.

2000- new stadium, high-water mark for team salary, still have a losing season.

2001-mid 2003 - Hoped our talent would develop, looked forward to off-season acquisitions.

Trade deadline 2003 - Bucs trade Aramis Ramirez & Kenny Lofton to the Cubs for a half-dozen used jock straps. "Cubs win! Cubs win!" Shit!

2004 - 2006 - looked forward to trade deadline to see if we could trade one of our high performing 1-year rentals for a good prospect. No real hope of a winning season at this point, but watching for the right combo of player development and savvy deals that might bode well for the NEXT year.

2007 - I look forward to each and every meltdown, every sweep, every negative story, every PR disaster. Any bad thing that can accelerate the Pirates towards a massive retooling and restructuring.

I think the title of this story says it all.
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07200/802774-150.stm

I wish we could get the current owners to sell. Mark Cuban wants a baseball team, and while he may be a putz, he's a RICH putz that builds winning teams. . .and he's originally from a suburb of Pittsburgh - Mt. Lebanon.

I can sum up how I feel in one word.

<SIGH>

It looks like the Pirates are going to trade shortstop Jack Wilson. I'm hoping for some new batting practice balls this time 🙂

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07200/802873-100.stm

I don't see this as a bad move. We signed him long-term coming off what, in retrospect, was a career year aberration, and his usually gold-glove caliber defense isn't QUITE what it was.

I just hope, when all is said and done, it adds up to more than just a salary dump.

Allegedly, we got this guy NOT to trade Jack Wilson, just to be another middling defense no-hit middle infielder to add to our prized collection of same. Hooray!

BTW, watch the guy in the blue jacket giving Aramis Ramirez a reach-around. Our new acquisition, ladies and gentlemen [golf clap]

http://uncutvideo.aol.com/search/relevant/...mis&index=0

BTW, apparently I got quoted on someone's baseball blog today. I wouldn't mention it, but the added funny is, I have no idea who quoted me or where. I can't find it. Must be a good blog, huh? 🙂

[Navin R. Johnson]
This is the kind of spontaneous publicity that makes people! I'm in print! Things are going to start happening to me now!
[/Navin R. Johnson]

Well, I'm gonna step back from this season of Pirates "baseball". If I follow it at all, I'm gonna watch for personnel and management changes, and look to see if it gives me any reason to follow more closely in future seasons. The team sucks, the management sucks much worse, and the fans aren't any picnic either. I'm giving up one msg board after some clever poster accused me of having someone's ball-sack in my mouth. I just don't need that shit ON TOP of being a Pirate fan.

I've noticed now that I've hit middle-age, the "kids" are kinda over-the-top with the smack-talk. I know when I'm among male friends, we can be a bit rough on each other, but the younger guys seem to really go for the jugular, quite relentlessly. I had to tell one college-age guy I worked with a couple years ago that I was gonna break his nose if he didn't watch his mouth - and I was as much his friend as anyone was there. Fortunately, I convinced him I was totally serious without having to do it.

Anyway, it looks like the team is perilously close to a melt-down. I hope so. I feel for the players stuck in this organization, since I'm sure if they could, they would not suck. Many of them are good role-players, but they should not be on a team FULL of role-players. At this point, anything that would further embarrass the team, or bring negative publicity to the team, would only be helpful in hastening the major organizational changes that are necessary.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07206/804178-63.stm

As a fan it's sometimes necessary to give up early to ensure that you have the energy to come back. Last year the Sox were well out of contention by this time and so I stopped paying attention to save myself the mental anguish that watching your team lose.

So 🍻 to the 2007 Pirates and better luck next year.

"The Onion" has a Pirates related article here:

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/64581

The reaction on the Pirate msg boards: How is this satire? It reads like a factual news story. (sigh)

A cool story about the many milestones being reached in baseball this year:
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburgh...s/s_520898.html

BTW, thanks to everyone who has responded to this thread. Your replies have (somewhat) tempered what would otherwise be a bitter soliloquy.

Is this about hockey?

ephil wrote:
Is this about hockey?

Well, it's generally about baseball, except when it's about the Pittsburgh Pirates, who, by all indications, are not a baseball team. 🙂

An interesting article about Bond' elbow protection, and how it assists his swing.
http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/ne...t_id=1003621797

Gotta hand it to Bonds: he finds ways to get an edge.

Ladies and gentlemen, I ask you, if your are of the mind and disposition, please, please send some prayers our way. Since I'm not a religious person, I'll hope for the best, and keep good thought in mind.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07251/815736-63.stm

Ding. Dong. The witch is dead. I'm not the most baseball-knowledgeable person you'll ever meet, so keep that in mind when I assure you that I could've done a FAR better job. That says something - a random baseball fan would've been a better GM.

A relatively short commentary by a talented sports writer:
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07251/815771-150.stm

I'm a bit surprised it took so long but I think Congratulations are in order 😀 Only way to go from the cellar is up.

Heh-heh, they blowed up! They blowed up REAL GOOD!

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07279/823432-63.stm

Jim Tracy, former Giants manager, and now former Pirates manager, will be looking for a new job after today. The rest of the coaching staff was not fired, but given permission to look for new jobs. I expect if they stick around very long after the new manager is hired, they will be shown the door as well.

Happily, also gone are scouting director Ed Creech and director of player development Brian Graham. One has only to look at what the past 6 years of high draft picks has done for the Pirates to know why this was necessary.

Minor league management has yet to be addressed, but I suspect, and hope, there will be thorough housecleaning done at that level as well. I don't think there are more than 1 or 2 ppl in this organization that deserve to stay. It was a group effort to get the Pirates where they are today.

I've said this for several years now:

(Paraphrasing Jack Nicholson's Joker) Gentleman, this organization needs an enema!

Now, they need to get to work on trading our better players to rebuild the team. Too much wrong, for far too long. It looks like the Pirates will break the all-time US professional sports record for losing seasons. They're at 15 seasons, and the record is the Phillies at 16. We can add one or 2 players and make an effort for .500 next year to avoid ignominy, or do the right thing and work to build a team that is consistently has a chance to do something. I hope they do the right thing. No sense doing things halfway! Besides, the Bucs DESERVE this record.

Congratulations Doc! Things are looking up in Pittsburgh!

They need to do what the Sox have done. First invest some $ in the organization from the ground up. Develop your own players and supplement them with trades and Free Agents. They don't have to compete with the Yankees so they should be able to do it for considerably less than the Sox have to 😛

Sarge wrote:
Congratulations Doc! Things are looking up in Pittsburgh!

They need to do what the Sox have done. First invest some $ in the organization from the ground up. Develop your own players and supplement them with trades and Free Agents. They don't have to compete with the Yankees so they should be able to do it for considerably less than the Sox have to 😛

Absolutely!

The Bucs hit a rough patch after their playoff run in 90-92. . .a change in ownership, threats to leave town, etc, and in all that time, they've had a BAD run of drafting, and then developing players. 15+ years of this, and that's the most important thing a small-market team needs to do right.

If I were to post a list of players that we've drafted, then post the list of players that we passed on that became solid, or even STAR ML ballplayers, it would be depressing. We've traded players for a sack of batting-practice balls that turned into stars. . . it's long-term, DETERMINED, institutionalized incompetence. I know that bad luck and bad decisions happen all the time throughout baseball, but this goes far, far beyond that.

Cool! Wikipedia has a nice article about this!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Littlefield

Here's a short excerpt:

Some would argue, of course, that the reason so many of the hitters had to be acquired through trades was due to a lack of impact hitting prospects in the farm system. This may have been partially due to his focus on drafting pitchers, but many argue that it is due to poor drafting. During his tenure the Pirates were widely criticized for taking players that were perceived to be more signable than talented.

The most notable example of this is the 2002 draft when the Pirates had the 1st overall pick. B.J. Upton was widely regarded as the top prospect, but Littlefield passed over him and other players, including Prince Fielder, Khalil Greene, Scott Kazmir, Nick Swisher, Matt Cain, Cole Hamels and Jeff Francoeur and instead drafted Bryan Bullington, who Littlefield said could be a "good #3 pitcher". After battling with injuries, Bullington has yet to make any impact with the Pirates.

Heh, a good #3 pitcher, at best, instead of Prince Fielder!

And another:

2003 Rule 5 draft

Littlefield received a large amount of negative publicity after the Pirates lost five prospects from their minor-league system with the first six picks in the 2003 Rule 5 draft, even though they had unused spots on their 40-man roster and could have protected several of the players if they had chosen to do so. Chris Shelton, who had recently been honored as the team's minor league player of the year, went with the first pick, and he was followed in short order by Rich Thompson, Frank Brooks, Jeff Bennett, and José Bautista.[1] Baseball executives present at the draft laughed openly at Littlefield's embarrassment, and the laughter intensified after the Pirates declined to make a pick of their own.The Cincinnati Reds, picking seventh, had all five Pirate players listed on their draft board and were frustrated to see them all go too soon, and an anonymous executive from another American League team said that his team had also planned to take a Pirate prospect, refraining only because in his words, "There wasn't anything left.