Gas $4 By Memorial Day

Started by Atomm · 48 posts · 6,528 views

  1. #1
    I heard on the radio earlier that Gas is predicted to hit $4/gallon by Memorial Day.

    That's nuts.... I know I've been upset about Gas prices in the past, but it's tied to everything in the economy and the last thing we need is for all prices to go up even higher.

    What affect will this have on you personally?

    For me, all of my miles are too/from work, so I can't cut costs there. I guess I can start that starvation diet I've been putting off.....
  2. #2
    I am going to look into trading in the Durango this Sat... Stupid 5.9L V8 gets worse gas millage then a Hummer...

    I fill up my 20 gallon tank about 3 times a month...

    (20*4.00)*3 = 240.00/month in gas... Eff that!

    So, I am looking to get a 2007 4 door Honda Civic Si....

    Sure, I wont be able to run people over anymore... But damn, at least I will be able to afford to drive the damn thing...
  3. #3
    Our main gas costs come from traveling to visit family and friends so we will likely be doing fewer trips but may stay longer while we are there. We went to VT last weekend and I filled the tank before we left ($45) and on the way home (another $30). We have 3/4 of a tank left over so it will last a couple of weeks but it is still a big bite.

    My wife and I both work < 2 miles from our house, and when the weather gets nicer I plan to walk/ride my bike as much as I can. Kids school is less than a mile away and the Grocery store and most other needs are within 3 miles or so.
  4. #4
    This is what you get for letting the sierra club set your energy policy. I just heard a couple of days ago that we are importing 30% of our gasoline, thats nuts. Food prices are on the rise due to ethanol production. But don't drill in anwar, don't drill off the alantic coast anywhere, and my God no windfarms in Mass, no there's ted kennedy saying 'not in my front yard'.

    Globing warming is a farce. Its only the means to line a few people's pockets. Where are all the posts about how its gotten colder this year? Oh, I know, now they want to change it from global warming to 'global climate change'.

    Russia, Norway, Greenland, are ALL building longassed pipelines from the arctic circle. Until half this country wises up and kicks out the tree huggin' liberals in congress, matters are only going to get worse.

    You bring it on yourselves. It amazes me how producing 1 gal of ethanol takes .9 gals of oil. 1 to 1:3 and they think this is progress? Sugarcane is 1 to 8, so why bother with corn here???

    Sarge you can walk to work all you want. It might make you feel good, but its going to do squat to solve any energy problems. Most of us cannot do that. I can see where this is more appealing to city dwellers that don't need cars to get around, but half of us live up to 30 miles from work, and I sure as hell cannot use a hybrid to haul tools and materials around.

    We have an energy crisis coming. How about instead of being the problem, you and your guys solve the problem for a change. Allow some drilling here and there, allow a couple of new refineries to be built. Its not like oil is going to go away in our lifetimes.

    Does anyone here think there is any internal problems like this brewing in India or China?? We have been pussies in America over oil and 'greenhouse gases' so long its allowed oil to go from $30 -$100 a barrel, in what just 4 or 5 years now.

    Sorry I was due for a rant 🙂
  5. #5
    lexx wrote:Sarge you can walk to work all you want. It might make you feel good, but its going to do squat to solve any energy problems. Most of us cannot do that. I can see where this is more appealing to city dwellers that don't need cars to get around, but half of us live up to 30 miles from work, and I sure as hell cannot use a hybrid to haul tools and materials around.



    Yes lowering oil consumption will not help the lack of oil. I <3 that republican logic.

    You could live closer to work. And yes there are hybrids that would be plenty large to haul your tools. Of course that can't possibly be the answer.

    As for the original question, my car is effeicent enough I won't notice the change in price. Though I will be riding my bike to work a substantial amount this spring and summer.
  6. #6
    Sure if it's just me it isn't going to do squat other than save me $ every month. I by no means live in a city, unless you count a town of 14,000 as a city. I made a choice to live where I worked and so instead of putting $40-$50 per week into gas, I can use that for other things. The great thing about this country is that you can choose where you live and where you work. I made a choice that is paying off for me financially, and will continue to reap benefits in the future. In the future it is likely that more and more people will be making the choice that I did.

    ANWR and other drilling is touted as this magic solution by a lot of people, but it doesn't solve the problem which is that we are running out of oil and will continue to do so until someone finds a substitute product or a different way of doing things. While there is serious debate about when it will happen, the point is that it will happen sooner or later, and why not try and change now?

    Yes, the current ethanol requirements are causing problems, but the law that requires it was more of a congressional pork project for mid-western (read republican) corn producing states than a valid energy policy.

    We import our gasoline not because of the Sierra Club but because of something called NIMBYism. Not. In. My. Back. Yard. In other words everyone says "we need more refining capacity, just don't build it in my community".

    I don't know about India, but China is ripe for some massive problems. They are stripping that country of it's natural resources, polluting the water and air so that they are making entire communities sick, and they import nearly 50% of their oil right now. Their consumption is about a quarter of that of the US, but is growing 10 times as fast. They are scrambling right now to clean up Beijing for the Olympics.
  7. #7
    I can't see $4 gas helping the economy. The housing market is having issues, gas is going up 33%, and now pizza and beer are going up!

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23415510/

    I hope we aren't running into a situation where a few bad things hit us at once and cause serious issues, like a long, bad recession or even a depression. I'm admittedly not greatly knowledgeable in the area of Economics. . .from the little I've read, it seems even economists don't understand, or agree, on all the driving forces. There's something for you to think about while you try to sleep tonight.

    WRT the refinery issues, I remember reading awhile back that the oil companies were GOING to build another refinery or 2, but decided not to since we were pushing forward with the biodiesel. They essentially said, "Well, I guess you don't need more refineries then." I think it was just an attempt to stave off the biodiesel threat - thinly guised coercion . "Stop with the biodiesel or we won't build more refineries." I understand that refineries are very large undertakings, and cost a great deal to build, but really, who's going to go broke selling gasoline in America?
  8. #8
    Lexx, they are allowing Deep Sea drilling in the Gulf. I watched a special about it the other day and all the cool things involved in actually pulling it off.

    The problems right now are numerous and I really believe it's going to get worse. Pointing fingers at your guys isn't going to solve these problems. The core issue is exactly what Lessig said, special interest groups in Washington driving policy and until that changes, we will continue down the path we are headed.

    And yes, these problems are starting to appear in China and India. And last time I checked, us pussies were refusing to sign the Kyoto Treaty on Global Warming.

    We are at a crossroads and what we do next will decide our future.....

  9. #9
    Sarge wrote:I don't know about India, but China is ripe for some massive problems. They are stripping that country of it's natural resources, polluting the water and air so that they are making entire communities sick, and they import nearly 50% of their oil right now.


    You know someplace that still has plenty of land and natural resources? Canada. They're sitting pretty, especially if they can get that shale oil conversion working at a decent price. It's kinda nice knowing all that's sitting in our backyard, and I figure one day it will come in handy. I just hope the dollar will be able to buy some of it when the time comes.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/ousiv/idUSL...20080317?rpc=92

    Apparently some places in Amsterdam are refusing to exchange dollars for Euros. Everyone ignored the predictions of possible bad times ahead I made upthread, but when the economy comes crashing down, I'll have the last laugh! Yessir, when a loaf of bread costs $100, I'll be back to tell you all - I predicted it! I'll be laughing, carrying an old laptop around trying to find free wi-fi so I can connect here to brag to you about it. . .as I look for handouts, and collect old bottles and cans for recycling. . .wait! When did I become homeless? Oh yeah. _I_ live in the USA. _I_ use US dollars.

    Perhaps I didn't think my cunning plan all the way through.
  10. #10
    😄

    Canada is looking very attractive right now 😀 If it weren't so damn cold up there though....Oh wait! Global warming will take care of that for me 😉
  11. #11
    oo they are all canucks up there.
  12. #12
    This is an interesting thread...

    So i'll pipe-in real quick and share some thoughts...

    The technology for alternative fuels have been around and working for decades.
    There was a convention back in the late 70's, early 80's at Jacob Javits Center in NYC that hosted alternative fuels working in cars. Everything was there, cars running on water, some engines that got 100 miles to a gallon on regular gas, biofuel, magnets, propane, electricity, etc. I think one guy got his car to run on piss!! Anyway, that was the first and last year of the convention. Why? Because all the oil and car companies decided to offer lots of money to build these and bought the rights up...and then shelved them...until now.

    Why now? They were making lots of money and who wants competition for that money. But 30 years later with the Earth warming (yes there is a confirmed scientific 2 degree warming trend in the past decade) either due to us or natural occurances, has the car companies looking at that technology and will slowly with new research unshelf it over the next decade.
    Did I mention it's also a mandate by law that they have the next decade to increase the percentage on alternative fuel cars in their line-ups. Barring budgeted R&D costs, those cars cost less to make and are also getting a premium cost wise from the consumer who wants to save money on gas. Has anyone also noticed that the mpg on these cars isn't really that good...I wonder why? Oh yeah, and the gas prices...

    The oil companies are pushing you toward the alternative fuel cars by higher gas prices. (They like to help each other out) I'd also be curious to see who the major investors are for the companies making the batteries for these alternative cars! But that's another topic. Actually they really don't need us anymore for revenue, they have China and India to buy their oil and that will eventually be in far greater quantities than we ever could buy. BTW - That big bump in oil prices because of a "refining issue" last year, was just a test to see what would happen. Nothing happened. So guess what...our gas is going up and staying up.

    I know I'm probably rambling thoughts here, but I didn't want this to be 27 pages long. It's not a conspiricy theory, just stregic planning on their part to manipulate cost in their favor. Just think about this: Can we invent a car that gets 100mpg on water/steam...sure...it may well exist...but will we ever see that in our lifetime...NOPE! (and if we do, water will cost 4.00 a gallon)

  13. #13
    Judge, you would enjoy the documentary "Who Killed the Electric Car"

    It speaks a little bit to this. It talks about one fo the major battery manufactures creating a good battery and being purchased by GM who basically didn't let him work on the idea any more.

    If you look at the price per gallon of some of the spring waters, $4/gallon is about where water is now. http://www.cockeyed.com/science/gallon/liquid.html
  14. #14
    Bubbaspanky wrote:Judge, you would enjoy the documentary "Who Killed the Electric Car"

    It speaks a little bit to this. It talks about one fo the major battery manufactures creating a good battery and being purchased by GM who basically didn't let him work on the idea any more.

    If you look at the price per gallon of some of the spring waters, $4/gallon is about where water is now. http://www.cockeyed.com/science/gallon/liquid.html


    Yeah I'll have to check that documentary out!

    Hmmm...maybe we will see the steam engine make a come-back and of course it will require premium water at $4.00+ a gallon!! 😉
  15. #15
    How do you get energy out of fluids like water and piss?

    I know you can split off the hydrogen and oxygen via electrolysis, but that's not real efficient, requires a lot of energy, and the production is probably better done off-board the car. Where do you get the energy to make it? Coal-powered plants would be the answer these days, unfortunately.

    Many biofuels require a lot of energy and effort to make as well, and have an effect on other things (like the food supply, when it's made from crops or grown on land that could be used for human food).

    I haven't heard a good solution to the gasoline problem yet. So far, I favor the building of a lot of new nuclear power plants - we really need more grid power anyway - and use that power for electric cars and/or making hydrogen, whichever is most efficient. You could put nuclear plants out in the boonies, put the hydrogen production plant 10-20 miles away, and have both "not in my backyard" facilities kept far away from the general public. You'd need a bunch of 'em, but really, there are many places in the US that have very few ppl.

    The whole state of Wyoming has half a million ppl! North and South Dakota, not much more per state. Montana has a million people. Texas has 23 million ppl, but if you looked at the population distribution, there's a HUGE area in west Texas that is very sparsely populated. I think even Pennsylvania has large areas in the center of the state where few ppl live. Plenty of room for scary hydrogen plants and the necessary nuclear power to run them.

    Can't say for sure that's a real solution, but it's an idea, it doesn't create more carbon emissions, and doesn't pull millions of acres of farmland off the task of growing food.
  16. #16
    I'm with Doc, I have yet to see a real solution. Water is not the solution. Ethanol is not the solution.

    Doc, I favor plasma over fission.....
  17. #17
    I heard on the radio earlier that Gas is predicted to hit $4/gallon by Memorial Day.


    Won't affect me lol..

    😢

    hehe
  18. #18
    you think at some point the american ppl are just gonna boycott gas?
  19. #19
    Atomm wrote:I'm with Doc, I have yet to see a real solution. Water is not the solution. Ethanol is not the solution.

    Doc, I favor plasma over fission.....

    Plasma? Are we talking fusion, the tech that's been "20 years away" since the 50's? Or have new developments slipped past my ever-vigilant Net surfing? 😀
  20. #20
    Kenny wrote:you think at some point the american ppl are just gonna boycott gas?

    Much like the spice of "Dune" fame. . .gas is life. Come to think of it, the main use of spice was to travel at faster-then-light speeds by 'folding space". Gas is spice, but not as cool.

    ETA:

    Decided the above was too flippant and not really a substantive answer. Gas use, or much of it anyway, isn't really optional. Even if the average person tried to minimize use, you still have to go to work. . .and a lot of ppl don't live on a bus line that is convenient for that. You need to go to the store a couple times a month, minimum. Also, I BELIEVE (but can't find a cite now) that much, or most of gas use isn't by the general public, but by companies transporting goods from factories to storage depots, then to market. . .also transporting raw materials to factories. Goods that aren't made in the USA need gas to get here, then are dispersed from the docks.

    You can cut back on usage. You can buy more fuel-efficient cars. . .but until there's an alternative, there's no boycotting it. Gas IS life, in the modern age.
  21. #21
    I had to fill up my van today and 🙁 I've been trying to fill it when it gets to 1/2 a tank but wasn't able to do it this time so I had to fill the whole thing. It's painful and I really feel bad for those folks who have to commute a lot.

    Here's an article on China's growing resource use that I saw this morning. The more I hear about how much they are industrializing the more concerned I get over our dependence on importing oil and other resources as they are going to continue to cause prices to go up.

    China: the new colonialists (from The Economist)
  22. #22
    Doc, you bring up a good point, as much as auto's are chugging gas, everything in our economy is tied to it and that's why it's hard to replace and so important to watch price fluctuations.

    Sarge, that's how I've felt for the past 6 months. It really hit home when I found out about China and India's transformation and impact on oil.

    Oh and Plasma Trash Burners are here..... I thought I posted something about this before. I read it in Wired.

    http://www.wired.com/techbiz/media/news/2006/09/71757
  23. #23
    Yeah, there really isn't a good substitute for gas out there yet. That is why the hybrid tech is a good stepping stone. It reduces our needs and makes the supplies last a bit longer.

    The auto companies need to figure out how to make hybrids that people with families can use. Think of how huge a seller a hybrid mini-van would be in soccer mom circles. Even if van gas mileage could be pushed into the 30's there would be huge savings. Full size hybrid truck's as well.
  24. #24
    Atomm wrote:Doc, you bring up a good point, as much as auto's are chugging gas, everything in our economy is tied to it and that's why it's hard to replace and so important to watch price fluctuations.

    Sarge, that's how I've felt for the past 6 months. It really hit home when I found out about China and India's transformation and impact on oil.

    Oh and Plasma Trash Burners are here..... I thought I posted something about this before. I read it in Wired.

    http://www.wired.com/techbiz/media/news/2006/09/71757

    Interesting. . .I wonder what the resultant waste looks like in person. Also, I wonder if it avoids poisonous fumes like would come from burning plastic. The article says it's "cleaner than incinerators" but that could mean 5% cleaner, or it could be like a fresh spring breeze coming off the plant - kind of a vague statement.

    I like that it takes care of 2 problems at once, but I doubt we'll be able to run all our power forever off our garbage - it says they expect "their entire landfill -- 4.3 million tons of trash collected since 1978 -- will be gone in 18 years." Still, it could be a great partial power solution that also takes care of another problem most ppl don't even think about.
  25. #25
    Yea, I love the idea that trash could be put to good use.

    Besides, they could always allow NY to pay them to take their excess trash. :-)

  26. #26
    That doesn't sound nearly as exciting as watching guys with plasma packs strapped to their backs roaming through the land fill vaporizing it a piece at a time... Maybe its just me. 😒
  27. #27
    Atomm wrote:Besides, they could always allow NY to pay them to take their excess trash. :-)


    Hey wait a minute there...
    NY doesn't actually take the trash...they "redistribute it" to Canada!!

    I like magnetism myself...
    Either a mag-lev system for cars or all out self sustained magnetic motors!
  28. #28
    Speaking of magnetism (I hope this is related).

    Slashdot had an article that some German scientists have been able to create a superconductor at room temperature. No more -2000 degrees!

    How is that related you ask? I thought I heard that with two superconductors, they could create a super maglev train.....

  29. #29
    Super conductors require alot of energy, though even cola fired trains would save alot if people used them.
  30. #30
    Bubbaspanky wrote:Super conductors require alot of energy, though even cola fired trains would save alot if people used them.

    Does it matter what brand you run them on? RC Cola is cheaper per 2-liter, but does it have the same efficiency as, say, Pepsi or Coke?
  31. #31
    DocJon wrote:Does it matter what brand you run them on? RC Cola is cheaper per 2-liter, but does it have the same efficiency as, say, Pepsi or Coke?


    hahahah dick. 😛 Though everyone know 7-11 brand would be the cheapest
  32. #32
    🤣
  33. #33
    Bubbaspanky wrote:hahahah dick. 😛 Though everyone know 7-11 brand would be the cheapest


    Hey, Judge said cars could run on piss. . . I figured maybe the trains capitalized on the potential energy of fizz!

    It looks like the Air Force is looking to wean it's dependence on foreign oil.

    http://news.wired.com/dynamic/stories/M/MI...-03-22-05-04-43
  34. #34
    Air Force: Good News Mr. President. We are going to cut our dependance on foreign oil and use American Made fuels.

    President: That's great news.

    Air Force: Oh and as a side benefit, we will save even more fuel when we fly over the Rocky Plains or Appalachian Plains.

    President: Don't you mean Rocky Mountains and Appalachian Mountains?

    Air Force: Not any more.....

  35. #35
    👍 🫡
  36. #36
    Ha good point Atomm
  37. #37
    Have you ever seen pictures of what's left of a mountain after it's strip mined? It's scary.

    I think I would be more impressed if they were going to use something that wasn't a fossil fuel. How about thinking outside the box for a change....
  38. #38
    Atomm wrote:Have you ever seen pictures of what's left of a mountain after it's strip mined? It's scary.

    I think I would be more impressed if they were going to use something that wasn't a fossil fuel. How about thinking outside the box for a change....

    So would I, Atomm, but I think we're back to "We haven't come up with a good alternative."

    I don't think electrical power and props are going to to appeal to the Air Force. . .all those batteries might not get off the ground anyway. Hydrogen might have too many issues to overcome for heavier-than-air flying. Here's a great article on hydrogen power:

    http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology...ry/4199381.html

    One thing that stood out to me was the energy density issue. Fuel tanks will need to be MUCH larger to power a vehicle as far as with oil-derived fuels. The hydrogen could be chilled to liquid form (which presents it's own problems and energy requirements) and then the tank will only need to be four times the size of an equivalent gas tank (not including insulation or cooling equipment needed to maintain that temperature).

    The replacement of oil may be a tough nut to crack. Better hope for a great improvement in solar power. We're eventually gonna need to get some free energy somewhere. Fortunately, it appears nuclear power isn't going away very soon.

    http://www.americanenergyindependence.com/uranium.html

    Seems like a very optimistic article, so I doubt it 100% correct. Still, that situation looks good for several generations at least.
  39. #39
    Sindy - that would be much cooler than Atomm's explanation. Heck, I might even like that job, especially if you can zap the occasional rat while you're at it. 🙂

    (Switching topics)

    As I said earlier, gas IS life.

    http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/americas/03/...d.ap/index.html

    I'd like to take the time to again mention how I think biofuel, if it uses land that used to, or could, grow crops, might be a bad idea. The article illustrates how changes in one country can cause a cascade of effects in many others. Ppl get very unhappy when they don't eat.

    Where are dem aliens with thar fancy, free energy devices? We better knock down a you-eff-oh and take a look under the hood!

  40. #40
    Yeah, politicians have jumped on the bio-fuel because it means pork projects. I did read somewhere that there are some options for sources that produce much more energy per acre, but I can't remember where I saw it.

    Part of the reason that milk prices and other foods are going up right now is that the congressionally mandated ethanol requirement is causing increasing demand for corn and other crops that used to feed cows.

    It does help extend the fuel supply and it is cleaner in some ways that regular gasoline and diesel, but it's not a long-term solution until they find that magical crop that produces lot's of energy per acre and nothing eats it.
  41. #41
    I propose liverwurst.

    At least nothing should eat it
  42. #42
    Wheat is at an all time high. It has more than doubled in price. Corn has also skyrocketed as a lot of corn growers are moving to Ethanol production instead of food. This in turn has made the price of meat shoot up in price. It is a vicious cycle.

    Sarge, I believe you are talking about Switchgrass. It has a higher cellulose percentage than any food and can be grown very easily. I also think it is easier on the soil than actual food crops.

    On a side note, I heard on the news yesterday that the increase in Fuel Cost has added 1 Billion dollars to American Airlines estimated fuel bill for 2008. They were projecting 8 Billion, but changed it to 9 Billion dollars.

    Think about that for one minute. If AA is that hard hit, how about UPS, FedEx, Long Haul Truckers? That money comes out of our pockets.

  43. #43
    All of this says one thing...

    We all need much larger raises...
  44. #44
    Atomm wrote:Wheat is at an all time high. It has more than doubled in price. Corn has also skyrocketed as a lot of corn growers are moving to Ethanol production instead of food. This in turn has made the price of meat shoot up in price. It is a vicious cycle.

    Sarge, I believe you are talking about Switchgrass. It has a higher cellulose percentage than any food and can be grown very easily. I also think it is easier on the soil than actual food crops.

    Yeah, I read about switchgrass. That's why I said, ". . .biofuel, if it uses land that used to, or could, grow crops, might be a bad idea. " instead of "Biofuel is a bad idea." It might be a workable solution. Here's more about it.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switchgrass#Biofuel
  45. #45
    ephil wrote:All of this says one thing...

    We all need much larger raises...


    I second the motion. Let's take it to the floor for a vote.

    ..and on a more personal note I have been and will continue to curse the day we took the dollar off the gold standard. Slowly but surely since then our dollars have represented less and less.
  46. #46
    Drix wrote:I second the motion. Let's take it to the floor for a vote.

    ..and on a more personal note I have been and will continue to curse the day we took the dollar off the gold standard. Slowly but surely since then our dollars have represented less and less.


    I never really looked at that. . . no surprise really, what I haven't looked at fills encyclopedias. How do you feel about the silver certificates? What, do you feel, would be the difference? At least they're backed by some precious commodity. . .though silver has declined in value quite a bit since it's high in 1979, so maybe there's my answer. Mr. Smith, my American History teacher, would be quite upset with me. I feel sure he had something interesting to say about all this, if I had only committed it to memory.

    Isn't the economy too large to go back to the gold standard now? Maybe that's what Mr. Smith had said. 🙂

    I remember someone came into the electronics store I worked at years ago, and paid with a silver certificate. One of the other guys exchanged it with a bill from their wallet of equal value, and was going to sell it. It was in really good shape.

    On a tangentially-related subject, I read this elsewhere a few days ago:
    Small money making secret. Ask your bank for a roll or half-dollars. Go through them carefully, usually a few are the old silver coins which can be sold for more than 50 cents. Last week I got 11 in a roll.

    I haven't tried it myself, but the 1964 Kennedys have about $5 in silver in 'em(90%). . .they're probably impossible to find. Even the ones made from 1965-1970 are 40% silver though. . . should be worth about $2+ apiece.


  47. #47
    I have a few Benjamin Franklin Silver Dollars, a few Silver Quarters and Silver Dimes, but my favorite are the steel pennies from WWII.

  48. #48
    Wow I haven't seen steel pennies since I was a kid! What ever happened to those...(Judge ponders his childhood trying to figure out what went wrong...opps...that's another post)

    I have a stamp with an upsidedown plane on it...is that work anything??
    (April fools)

    How about creating localized gravitational fields that can be manipulated directionally by changing polarity...sorry that's how UFO's travel...we could never invent that... 😱

    Judge
    (Making people think since 1970)