Sarge is this an invitation to try out some of my "ideas" at your house??? My wife has banned my "ideas" from ours. Although I did get a tentative OK on a research Nuke plant such as they have at MIT and Umass Lowell as long as I am able to obtain the proper permits. I mean I took half a dozen college physics classes.
I <3 MIT there one of our customers, and every time they start a new project, they buy all new equipment, even if they have what they need from a past failed idea - they don't re-use the old equipment they buy new....
Dang it! I want my Flux Capacitor and I want it now!
Seriously, this is awesome. I really, really hope it makes it into public use. The biggest hurdle I see is getting past both the Oil and Electric Company. I could see this technology squashed in their own self interest.
There needs to be a law that makes it illegal for a company to buy technology that could serve the greater good just because it invalidates the existing business model. Damn, now I sound like a Democrat..... 😈
Atomm wrote:Dang it! I want my Flux Capacitor and I want it now!
Seriously, this is awesome. I really, really hope it makes it into public use. The biggest hurdle I see is getting past both the Oil and Electric Company. I could see this technology squashed in their own self interest.
There needs to be a law that makes it illegal for a company to buy technology that could serve the greater good just because it invalidates the existing business model. Damn, now I sound like a Democrat..... 😈
MIT will own any patents related to what these guys are doing, if there are patents to be had. Work done by their employees and students will likely be owned by them. I don't fear MIT being bought off.
Unfortunately, this has been a big complaint of government and private sector funded University research. You'd think the University would own the patents, but it doesn't appear to always work that way.
Still, despite the questions about the commercial viability of the technology, Nocera said that the Bob Metcalfe-run venture capital firm, Polaris, had "swooped in" on the technology and was filing for patent protections.
Let's hope they actually develop this technology and not sell it to the highest energy sector bidder.
There was a huge stink over this at OU. They were doing biomedical research for private corporations and the private companies were reaping all of the benefits.
The only way this could truly be protected is for MIT to assign the patents to one of the Open Patent corporations set up to allow Universities to assign the patents and allow others to freely use the technology without hindering further development. There has been a big push in Biology/Medical research to assign new drug research to these companies to keep the major drug companies from hording technology that would benefit all mankind.
Atomm wrote:Unfortunately, this has been a big complaint of government and private sector funded University research. You'd think the University would own the patents, but it doesn't appear to always work that way.
There was a huge stink over this at OU. They were doing biomedical research for private corporations and the private companies were reaping all of the benefits.
The only way this could truly be protected is for MIT to assign the patents to one of the Open Patent corporations set up to allow Universities to assign the patents and allow others to freely use the technology without hindering further development. There has been a big push in Biology/Medical research to assign new drug research to these companies to keep the major drug companies from hording technology that would benefit all mankind.
WTF? How is this happening? Did the company doing the 'swooping' finance the research? If not, why the hell don't the brainiacs at MIT have the sense to assign it to the open patent corp.? I wonder if they aren't paying someone under-the-table to 'forget' to patent things, so they can 'swoop in'.
I think alot of times it's a collaboration. we aren't talking funding of 20k we are talking millions. Sometimes it's a grant of a private corp, part of the grant is they own the rights. Sometimes the university gets the credit and prestige and the corp gets the work.
I also think IP is slightly different in the academic world. In the private sector your company owns you and your inventions, in the public/academic world, it's yours. Of course there are always exceptions
I am on a local listserv with a physicist at the university here. His response on the article he has read about this was "Someone told me about this article earlier today - to me it doesn't seem like a big deal at all (calling it a "giant leap" is absurd). It's just a slightly different way of doing electrolysis. Whoopty-do. And it isn't using the "plant energy storage system" any more than any other type of electrolysis powered by PV derived electricity is. It's still very inefficient, uneconomical, etc.."
This guy is one who really even in his personal life has looked for energy alternatives and is not typically a naysayer.
I'm no physicist, but if you can create o2 and h2 with sunlight, that has to be a worthwhile thing. The current system of doing this costs about 50k and uses electricity to work.
Any chance you can ask him to explain why this isn't worthwhile?
I think you answered that yourself. To create a small amount of H2 to replace gas you would have to spend an large amount of money and energy. Possibly more energy than the hydrogen would give you.
Bubbaspanky wrote:I think you answered that yourself. To create a small amount of H2 to replace gas you would have to spend an large amount of money and energy. Possibly more energy than the hydrogen would give you.
So, if we continue to develop more efficient solar panels (they're at 40% in the labs, last I heard) that have a fairly long lifespan (say 20+ year), and simultaneously increase the efficiency with which electrolysis can be done, this will still never form a significant percentage of our energy needs?
I know it's not your statement, but I'm wondering what the point is where it becomes viable. We need some sort of energy storage that isn't batteries, even if it's not practical to use in cars. Storing excess energy to be used in times of low-to-no energy production is kind of important to solar power & wind power usage. . .and batteries tend to lose storage capacity and die over time, which adds expense and makes a mess in the landfills.
Bear in mind, technology is great in it's speed to market. Moore's law and the like prove this. I am sure there is a point where this becomes viable, just it's not now. If we find something easier or more powerful sooner it may never become viable because we don't devote the effort to it.
You are correct batteries are ineffecient, capacitors are better for short term. We could make the lead acid battery better and more effecient, but it's not worth the time and effort for the very nominal gains, we have moved on to better technologies.
I just wrote a paper on microturbines and their applicability in energy alternative scenarios. It takes old technologies and processes and makes them 100% more effecient. Now is it the silver bullet no, but it's a step in the right direction that can be applied with todays 'affordable' technologies.
They're cool, in a geeky tech kinda way, and obviously have applications for power-hungry portable devices, but do they have uses that I'm not seeing, like in cars? They're a small, portable power source that works in place of a battery, but you can't STORE energy with it, so this won't help the hybrid car situation (regenerative braking).
I guess it will save us the production of batteries, which we then use either one time(disposables) or for a couple years (rechargeables) and then discard - there's energy and resource savings right there, along with nasty stuff kept out of the landfills. . .
Geez, I just realized: these things are gonna smell like main street during rush hour! I'm gonna get brain damage using a laptop indoors, aren't I? 🤪
Atomm wrote:I think the Microturbine and the water Electrolysis H2 would be a way to get all houses off the grid. Everything would be self contained.
Hybrids would plug into your home and get electricity that was off the grid. I think that is where the savings and efficiency comes from.
I didn't see where the microturbines could use hydrogen, so I didn't think of that. I suppose if it works by burning fuel, it could be adapted for it. . .they already use propane and natural gas.
Ok so microturbines are small and effecient, they can burn almost any conventional fuel, methane (think solid waste), Hydrogen, Coal, Nat gas, oil, propane. They can be made small enough to power a house, the other beauty of them is they are great in CHP setups... i.e. the byproduct of the energy production is heat, you can use this heat to heat or cool your house/hot water... etc. In a CHP setup the microturbine is 80% effecient as opposed to your typical 40%.
other benefits include non fluctuating stable and clean electricity, i.e. throw out your line conditioners... don't need em
very low in pollution
and expandable if your power needs grow you can add another to the system
think server farm instead of mainframe. The way we do power now is Mainframe, the ideal way is server farm... more ideal is distributed server farm. Note nearly 5-10% of energy produced is lost in the transmission over the wires to your house. Last think of our current power system, as it is take out one power plant and large chunks of our country is screwed, with this you couldn't lose power.
Bubbaspanky wrote:Ok so microturbines are small and effecient, they can burn almost any conventional fuel, methane (think solid waste), Hydrogen, Coal, Nat gas, oil, propane. They can be made small enough to power a house, the other beauty of them is they are great in CHP setups... i.e. the byproduct of the energy production is heat, you can use this heat to heat or cool your house/hot water... etc. In a CHP setup the microturbine is 80% effecient as opposed to your typical 40%.
other benefits include non fluctuating stable and clean electricity, i.e. throw out your line conditioners... don't need em
very low in pollution
and expandable if your power needs grow you can add another to the system
think server farm instead of mainframe. The way we do power now is Mainframe, the ideal way is server farm... more ideal is distributed server farm. Note nearly 5-10% of energy produced is lost in the transmission over the wires to your house. Last think of our current power system, as it is take out one power plant and large chunks of our country is screwed, with this you couldn't lose power.
Thanks for laying it out. I had a hard time seeing how this was to work when I was looking at ppl describing it as a laptop battery replacement.