This is just wrong

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080923/ap_on_...udent_arsenal_5

//conservative rant//
This kinda pisses me off. When did the anti-gun libs get these kinda laws passed and where is the NRA on this.

This mother could get 3-5 years for buying a hunting rifle for a kid of hunting age?? F'in hell, my single mother bought me my first double barreled shotgun for my 13th birthday. It was a right of passage to manhood, now its just another twisted liberal ideal.

Oh yeah, I forgot, I'm just clinging to my guns because I'm miserable.
//kneejerk rant off//

All bs aside, how the hell could he seriously take a 22 rifle into a school and do anything with it? A sword, a knife from a fleamarket, for f sakes, nothing but sensationalizing. Hell by the time I was 16 I had 4 guns including a pistol.

Keep this crap up and half the kids from blue states will be in jail before they turn 16. These 'feel good' ideas of theirs is just twisting this country into a pretzel.

1.) I am not sure what this article has to do with Liberals
2.) I was given a BB gun on my 5th birthday, a .410 on my seventh and a .22 on my 8th. I bought my shotgun (which I still own) on my 16th birthday.

But seriously Lexx you think it's OK this kid owned a cache of weapons and was planning on killing his school mates? I mean really??

Part of gun ownership is ensuring your guns are not used to kill people. This mother (who is the legal owner of these guns) did not ensure that. Maybe she didn't know his mental state, but no matter what she is responsible for those guns. My father (who is more conservative and republican leaning than even you Lexx) would have not only ensured I had no access to weapons such as those if he didn't know I would be 100% safe with them, but he would have beat my ass for even considering playing out some fantasy of actually killing people with guns.

If I supplied guns to some highschool kid down the road, I would hope that would be taken very seriously by the kids parents, school and the local police. There is a reason for a ownership age. Kids make dumb mistakes. It is the parents role to guide them

Bubbaspanky wrote:But seriously Lexx you think it's OK this kid owned a cache of weapons and was planning on killing his school mates? I mean really??

It wasn't a cache by any stretch. Just 4 separate items sensationalized by the press, and now the judge. He didn't even go to that school, just an internet threat or a hoax, whichever I don't know.

I'm not saying he has all his marbles, but I'm not too keen on the way they are trying to lynch his mother either. Its not like she bought him a couple of .9mm's for crying out loud. Its a stinking 22 rifle with a $5 laser stuck on it ;p

True enough. I keep our family's weapons in a safe too. I just kinda think the kid should have gotten a whack on the head and a couple of days in juvenile. Since Columbine these instances have been blown out of proportion. Its not like he was a gansta from Detroit.

I kinda over reacted, but I think they are getting a raw deal.

I agree to some extent Lexx, when I was in high school I remember we used to bring our shotguns in and check them in the principals office after a half day of turkey hunting (so they didn't get stolen). Things have changed since then, but it's been shown that this is a serious issue.

Maybe it was internet rumors, maybe it was a real threat, but you bet your butt you'd be happy they did this if he was from your local school. I think his mother should be made aware that giving him unfettered access to weapons is a very very bad idea, and that is for any kid, whether he is a gangster from Detroit or a kid from Pa or NJ. Maybe they are being a little hard on her, but well it's better than what could've happened.

Last, I don't care if it's small a .22 will still kill someone dead. It may not be a 44Mag, but it is still lethal if used with that intent. Also the idea that the kid was trying to make homemade granades from black powder is even mroe scary, that is a very easy path to this kid killing himself by accident. Don't ever underestimate the power of weapons to kill. .22's are often used as sniper rifles. Black powder is always dangerous when misused.

So while being upset that this is a bad thing in regards to the fight to maintain gun ownership as a right, don't make this a political issue, and don't disregard this as not a big deal.

Good points, however I disagree its not political. I think this case is totally politically motivated.

I suppose like anything, some people have to pay a price to set an example, which in this case is a single mother.

I must admit, I've been on edge the last few weeks. Imagine if I'm hunting with my kids and one of them would brag about field dressing an animal in school. I would be so screwed.

It also doesn't help matters when both my kids get gang banged at school by groups of black kids spouting that they are going to rule the school when obama wins. So this struck a deeper chord than I suppose it normally would. I'm definitely going to be selling and moving very soon.

Lexx, I'm sorry to hear that man.

Hate, no matter what the reason is unacceptable. In this case, he voiced hatred and even tried to bring another person into his fantasy of seeking revenge. At that point, it's not about the gun, but about the intent. If his intent was to seek harm of someone else and his mother helped foster that intent, then they should be taken into custody.

When I was in 8th grade, the stoner next to me opened his locker and a .357 fell out onto the floor. It didn't go off. I was lucky and I was also shocked. While it never crossed my mind to do something like this, it did cross his. He was suspended indefinitely. Today he would be sent to jail. Things change. The world is what we make of it.

Lexx, I thought all day yesterday on this one – as you may know I’m a RABID 2nd amendment supporter, it’s the one that protects all other amendments - past and present.

But I hate to admit, there right brother. What if they caught the asshole from Columbine (I refuse to say any of these psychotics’ names) would you want them to get a slap on the wrist and told not to do it again?

What about Virginia Tech – what if they caught that nut before he started chaining doors – tell him to go get a happy meal and talk it out?
(Don’t get me started on VT’s feel good gun control policy or the actions of the adults in this situation…. Pathetic at best – but that’s another day)

This kid’s mom should be held accountable for the actions of her child.

atom wrote:….the stoner next to me opened his locker and a .357 fell out onto the floor. It didn't go off….

Atomm maybe you don’t understand modern firearms – but a pistol should not go off on a drop – they have several internal mechanisms to prevent that from happening. The firing pin is blocked by a “gate” called just that – a hammer drop safety, also the hammer is held from release by an item called the sear only dropping once the trigger has been manually manipulated to is most rearward point of travel. Even if the hand gun was at half or full cock, the sear and the hammer drop safeties would still be in place prevent a negligent discharge.

But making a capricious statement of the gun did not go off when dropped is like saying guns kill people.

WRONG!

It’s the moron behind the trigger or the steering wheel or the knife or the spoon or the ships wheel. The item has no volition of its own – the gun did not want to go off any more than the spoon wants to make rosie odonnel fat.

This goes back to the thread you started about bring a gun in to your house you started last year some time, before you purchase a fire arm – learn and respect it for what it is, don’t buy one – toss it in a safe (you did get a safe right??) and never shoot it. Or think I have a gun I can defend my self in time of need, but I don’t need to train with it because there dirty < < < replace your favorite word of contempt here.

You get the idea…. I’m off on a gun tirade (again(again)) back to lexx, bro – I think she’s culpable for the crime he never committed. It sucks for me to say that but someone had to provide the firearms, and she’s the one. Just as long as they don’t get too rabid and try to go after the manufacturers or the local gun shop owner – using that line of thought plays in to the gun grabbers play book – hold the gun companies accountable, sue the manufacturers, sue the local gun shop, take, confiscate, ban and destroy. Which I truly believe is there final act of desperation.

Since the Heller decision ruled in our favor, two of the most prominent anti-rights organizations have gone bankrupt, which is a great thing in my opinion, and others are trying to change their tactics and recruiting, but they see the writing on the wall.
Unfortunately the biggest gun grabber in the land is running on a presidential ticket this year and that’s a very - very bad thing for us.

She’s responsible for the kid and the purchases – the fat kid for his preparation for murder– no one else.

I think parents need to be responsible for the actions of their children. The children also need to be held responsible as well for things that they do or say they are going to do to injure or kill others. Going after manufacturer's seems to be wrong in most any instance that I can think of off the top of my head.

Regarding Obama's stance on guns, I think there is a lot of misinformation out there. Here are the two stances based on the CNN Election Center Page

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/issues/issues.gun.html

CNN Election Center Gun Issue page wrote:John McCain
Voted for a 2005 law prohibiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers stemming from acts committed by others using their products. Supports instant criminal background checks on people purchasing guns and believes law should apply to gun sales at gun shows. Opposes restrictions on assault weapons and voted against such a ban. Voted against a 10-year extension of the assault weapons ban. Supported legislation requiring gun manufacturers to include gun safety devices such as trigger locks in product packaging and voted for 2005 child safety lock amendment. Voted against 2005 amendment placing restrictions on rifle ammunition that is "designed or marketed" to be armor-piercing. Opposed 1994 crime bill, which contained the assault weapons ban. Has a C+ rating from the NRA. Regarding the Supreme Court case District of Columbia v. Heller, McCain signed a friend-of-the-court brief urging the Supreme Court to overturn the District of Columbia gun ban. Voted for 2006 amendment prohibiting confiscation of firearms from private citizens, particularly during times of crisis or emergency.

From CNN Election Center Gun Issue page wrote:Barack Obama
Voted against a 2005 law prohibiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers stemming from acts committed by others using their products. Supports instant criminal background checks on people purchasing guns and believes law should apply to gun sales at gun shows. Calls for permanently reinstating assault weapons ban. Voted for 2005 amendment placing restrictions on rifle ammunition that is "designed or marketed" to be armor-piercing. Supports making guns childproof and voted for 2005 child safety lock amendment. Would repeal the Tiahrt Amendment, which allows the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives to share data on history of sales and transfers of firearms used in crimes only with federal agencies for national security purposes, or prosecutors needing it for an ongoing criminal investigation or prosecution. Regarding the Supreme Court case District of Columbia v. Heller, Obama did not sign a friend-of-the-court brief that urged the Supreme Court to overturn the District of Columbia gun ban. At a debate, when asked about case, Obama said he believes "that the Constitution confers an individual right to bear arms. But just because you have an individual right does not mean that the state or local government can't constrain the exercise of that right." Voted for 2006 amendment prohibiting confiscation of firearms from private citizens, particularly during times of crisis or emergency.

And this goes into detail regarding Obama's stance on firearms based on current NRA sponsored ads against him.

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/nr...gets_obama.html

While certainly he has some positions that the NRA and other gun advocates would be against, he doesn't appear to me to be trying to get rid of them entirely except in the case of "assault weapons".

Ok, I agree with you all. My point was IS this woman 'ma barker' or just another mom that tries to give her kid things he wanted.

If we as a nation want to take this kind of stance, then we should be locking up every parent of a gang banger. You know he's out at nite, you know who's hes hanging out with.

As a strict as hell parent, this scares the crap out of me. I've bought all these items for my kid, plus taught him how to use them. A 22 rifle from K-Mart, a sword and dagger from a flea market, and I've always had gun power for reloading. ... heh, actually playing with gun power was always kinda fun. We used it for special effects for our band back in the day....

So, even tho I keep all weapons in a gun locker, and I keep the keys to that in my wall safe, I'm still liable. That's insane.

For every idle threat they find like this, how many go undetected, a 100, a 1000? We can't legislate this. Each case must be looked at objectively and this zero tolerance bs must be re-evaluated.

Oh Sarge, without resorting to links or anything, there really is no defending Obama's stand on guns.

He's admitted he was for the DC gun ban, and was disappointed in the Supreme Courts decision. When asked if he supported a community's right to suppress the 2nd he is on the record as saying 'right' and nodding his head on video. Add in the comment from PA made in SF and it doesn't leave anything to wonder about.

We really have no idea where the guys mindset is. Is it an elitist harvard type attitude, or one developed as part of his community activism part of life. He also is on the record as wanting to ban armor piercing ammo in pistols. That would have made my TC illegal to shoot since it uses 223. rifle rounds.

Chip, chip, chip. 🙁

lexx wrote:So, even tho I keep all weapons in a gun locker, and I keep the keys to that in my wall safe, I'm still liable. That's insane.

You don't think you should be liable for your guns? And your children??? We live in very different worlds man.

And FYI, parents don't have to oblige every urge their child has. I know this is the popular thought lately, but it's just bad.

Finally, the problem with trying to legislate "gang bangers" is that their guns aren't registered to anyone. We need to enforce that as well, but it isn't an excuse for others to be bad parents.

Again I ask you, would you be saying the exact same thing if this kid was in your kids school?

Bubbaspanky wrote:Again I ask you, would you be saying the exact same thing if this kid was in your kids school?

Oh, it has happened here a couple of times. There are now metal detectors and the school is locked down with guards daily. My kids are afraid of the bullies mostly because they would never know who has access to weapons after school.

No sir, I should not be liable if someone breaks through my defenses and steals a weapon and commits a crime with it. I believe one of the laws in Pgh is your now liable if a thief harms someone with your property. While these are rare occurrences, it just further dilutes down the rights of gun owners.

Bubba, I'm totally liable for my kids. I've been in court twice and its been about the bulling. I was also fined $240 because my kid skipped 10 days of school out of fear last year.

Intellectually you may be right, but move down here and live it for a couple of years. As far as I'm concerned this case just encourages the gangs to keep making life miserable for the strange kids.

lexx that sucks buddy - I got the hell out of Boston because of the local and state goobermnt' and that it was just too damn liberal for me.

The gangs were moving in to the burbs and making a mess of things, but the bleeding hearts thought like always they could fix it with hugs and koom-by-ya.
(and don't get me started on guns.....)

Get the F out with your hide intact and let your kids be kids for Gods sake! There HAS to be a place you can go to make a decent living without the BS your having to go through. Man that sucks, I'm really sorry to hear about the BS you gotta put up with.

Yah Duck. I'm quite aware of my decision to stay in the city. When I joined a libertarian group here, a dozen of us decided to jump in with both feet and buy empty houses in one district. We idealistically thought we could resurrect one neighborhood and business district and live and keep our money in the city instead of the urban flight going on at the time.

The next 10 years were spent in all kinda meetings. One of those is actually still going once a month, the Conservatory North group. We brought business and the neighbors together, lobbied city hall and URA for federal funding. It was getting to be a pretty nice place, well it still is to a point. City lending deals have cheapened some of the property, but otherwise its fine.

The only thing I didn't see as a problem is when the kids start High School. Since our school is a magnet school, anyone can bus here. Add a couple of years to other tensions in life and this puts a cap on your original ideals. Out of the original 12, only myself and one other remain here. Heh, Paladin thinks I'm crazy for living here, but he drives half an hour longer and probably pays twice the property taxes ;p


So yah guys. I identify with this kid and his mother. As usual, a social problem is being tried in the press while ignoring the real problem of WHAT caused it. There are some pretty nasty kids being bused in from all parts of the city, and they are running ruffshot on the school. Way out my control. I was of the mind that this would be a good experience for them. After all you have to experience life to maintain balance, but the scales are unfairly tipped.

Now if the city would refund my 4k of school taxes I pay each year, I could opt for private schools, but the democrats keep killing the school vouchers, or the right to work, or this, or that, whatever it takes to maintain their hold over this city.

While New Hampshire (my birth state) is not the true free state it once stood for, check ot the free states project.

It's like what you did (very commendable by the way) - they are trying it on a state level.

http://freestateproject.org/

Should it take off, or should I move back to New England (doubtful) I would be glad to give them a hand.

Are you frustrated at the loss of freedom and responsibility in America, while the growth of government and taxes continues unabated? Do you want to live in strong communities where your rights are respected, and people exercise responsibility for themselves and in their dealings with each other?

If you answered "yes" to those questions, then the Free State Project has a solution for you.

What the Free State Project is... The Free State Project is an effort to recruit 20,000 liberty-loving people to move to New Hampshire. We are looking for neighborly, productive, tolerant folks from all walks of life, of all ages, creeds, and colors who agree to the political philosophy expressed in our Statement of Intent, that government exists at most to protect people's rights, and should neither provide for people nor punish them for activities that interfere with no one else.

Thats pretty neat Duck. However I don't see one small state having any impact with the bigger picture as I see it. I wish them luck tho.

Anyways, while in WV for the last couple of weeks I put a bid on a house with some property, so I could be out of here in a few months. At least this will get the wife off my ass about moving every time the school calls home 😉

Strange how this one headline pissed me off though.

If I recall Lexx, it's correctly pronounces West-By-God-Virginia, or at least that's how my room mate and other squad members declared it in the Army!
FTW

Luck on the bid - what about $$? is there work?
(do they know what the internet is yet? 🤬 )

The free state movement has never seemed to amount to anything here besides a libertarian talk show on public radio. Maybe I have missed it here, but haven't noticed it. I assure you the "facts" they have in their animated picture at the top are all pushing it a little bit, basically after each one there is a ",but not really".

For instance the claim NH has the 3rd lowest tax burden, while technically true, the reality is that the "fees" more than make up the difference, sometimes making things more expensive than Massachusetts.

Duck wrote:If I recall Lexx, it's correctly pronounces West-By-God-Virginia, or at least that's how my room mate and other squad members declared it in the Army!
FTW

Luck on the bid - what about $$? is there work?
(do they know what the internet is yet? 🤬 )

Lol, yah your right, and yah there is internet. I have to check the phone number there and see what is available tho.

There are a few options. I'm thinking of just keeping an office here and commuting back and forth if I have to. Also a new coal to gas conversion plant is going to be built next year, so I'm thinking there should be plenty of construction going on there for a few years.

Yah, Bubba is right. The fees can kill ya. There are some in WV, but they are kinda petty ones. All in all, I think they have modernized the tax code from since I lived there. More stuff to check out when I drive down tomorrow.

HA! Those people are a couple of hundred miles south of me. I wouldn't even want to drive into that territory.

You could of picked a John Denver song ;p

Ok, this is another thing that is just 'wierd'. I placed a bid, made the escrow payment, and signed an agreement. House will be ours in 8 weeks with possession to occur when senior aged woman there gets her apartment in the highrise.

10 mins ago the music, arts, and preforming school CAPA just called and accepted my daughter for enrollment. They want her to start Wednesday.

Doesn't look like I'm gonna be moving for another 4 years 🙂

Congratulations on both!

When you can move, where in WV are you going to be? I'm assuming it's not in commuting distance for the school?

When I can move, it would be a 70mile commute (northern panhandle) back and forth to my office, so I could handle that once in a while, but no way for a school schedule. I spent $60 in gas going there Sunday. That could get pricey after a while.

Gotta give her credit though, it took years of practice to impress that 3 judge panel to accept her. I just wish they would have decided this about 3 or 4 days sooner, but I have plans for the house, so its ok. I'll just have to deal with a long distance tenant for a spell.

See, there's a light at the end of the tunnel. You just have to avoid the train attached to it and you'll be fine. :-)